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Fr. Anton is posting this right now!!!

I want to add, though, that I have spoken very recently with one of the real victims, who never spoke of this before. His experience is not of an “unspeakable hell”. He never gave it too much importance, because it was not done with violence. At the time he did not consider it to be a sin because Fr. Maciel would know better and he himself didn’t confess it either. He has also told me of other two victims he knows and that also for them there wasn’t any hell. They continued in the Legion for long years without a problem. Please, I hope I am not misunderstood. I don’t want to deny the gravity and the hell that some of the victims may have experienced at the time and afterwards. I am just pointing that that is not the experience of all the victims.

Oh my dear Lord! Talk about minimizing the gravity of sin...All this renders me speechless.

Concerning the victims, there needs to be a distinction made. Some victims of MM (there were so many) were traumatised and found ways to leave the Legion. It took years, but they are out. Others may or may not have been as traumatised (there's no way to gauge it) but they have stayed. They have made some sort of peace with their arrangement in an organisation that took them under the false guise of holiness and in fact abused them physically, humanly and spiritually.

Since Fr Anton has spoken with someone and found that there was not an "unspeakable hell," and since he has not spoken to any of the victims associated with Regain, I can only assume, given the information we have that he has spoken to a victim who is still in the Legion. That is an enormous concession.

More important than anything, though, he admits that such victims exist. No matter what others try to say about MM (and that perhaps the accusations were false, or that he was "only" a womaniser) there is at least one bona fide paedophilia victim.

Scary to read Fr. Anton's words above from last March - reading those posts live in early March told me alot about how serious this situation. I pray Fr. Anton and those victims he mentioned are OK.

FYI - thought it was interesting that there is a Youth and Family Encounter (YFE) in Mexico on Feb 19-21 next month a few weeks before the end of the visitation on March 15!

Imaculee Ilibigaza is the speaker (who is totally awesome) and she will speak on forgiveness. Not sure this is the right time and message a few weeks before the visitation is about to end!

Thanks, Anon. Imaculee is the perfect speaker, because she's probably clueless about the nature of R_ (her attention is completely elsewhere on, um, legitimate matters of faith) and many people would come just for the chance to hear her story. It has nothing to do with the Movement, but can bolster their numbers so they feel good about themselves.

I well remember how horrified I was to read Fr. Anton's description of not thinking sexual abuse was that big a deal for those to whom it was not done in "violence". Ah, a gentle rape, nothing to lose your serenity over! No hell at all......just pleasant memories of a bit of intimate time with their beloved Father Founder, no doubt.

I was literally sick to my stomach reading these words from a Catholic priest who teaches moral theology at a University.

I wasn't impressed with his only-slightly veiled threats against a former LC, either. (that WAS Fr. Anton, wasn't it? Hope I am not getting him mixed up with another priest).

That was way back when I was just first starting to really face the depths of the malformation of this order of priests. What a year it has been!

"Feelings are neither right nor wrong - they just are" (from Marriage Encounter) Attempts such as this to suppress people's emotions is one of their many ways to try to dehumanize their members and make them into programmed robots. Unfortunately L and R and other similar groups (e.g. Moonies) have found effective ways of doing this so that everyone will be good and do their bidding.
When I call a government office and get recording after recording I get frustrated because I want to speak to a real person. I get a similar feeling when I try to have a real conversation with my 3gf daughter.

Serenity Koolaid is still being dosed out: at our children's Legion school, the high school boys are at their obligatory spiritual retreat given by an LC, the school invited all parents to a day-long retreat and to the triduo retreat, also to be given by an LC, 'colaboradoras' still take girls from class to give them their'spiritual direction',heads of apostolate were told that it was absolutely obligatory that they attend the 'mística seminars parts 1 and 3' given by Fr.LC just last week. MM's photo hangs on the wall of the locale where the RC señoritas meet.People in this neck of the woods (as someone in Trastevere's column called them: the hispanoilusohablantes) are oblivious to any real world outside of the matrix.

As a reminder to all (and for the benefit of those who have joined this blog more recently than Feb./Mar. of last year), Fr. Jose Anton, LC was a professor of moral theology at the Legion's Regina Apostolorum in Rome at the time of his postings on AmP. These postings were very long (he subsequently deleted one or two, as I recall) and very helpful to understanding how the long-time LC'ers viewed the cause of the sexual abuse victims.

Two things I found particularly revealing:

1) By posting that MM's crimes should not be exposed, Fr. Anton resorted to the argument that to do so would be to commit the sin of detraction;

2) Then there is the excerpt above, which needs no commentary.

Remember, Fr. Anton is a professor of moral theology.

My other favorite Fr. Anton tidbit, "Maciel may have done some bad things, but they are infinitely outweighed by the good."

That's not an exact quote, but I think it is pretty close to what he actually typed.

I was appalled.

I have been thinking that using the "C" in L_/R_ is a violation of the Second Commandment:

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain."

I mean, this group is a lot of things, but one thing it definitely does not appear to be is "of Christ".

Emperor, glad to hear from you!

I hate to say it, but I find taking out the Cs from RC/LC very distracting. Personally, I'm morally certain that Maciel's charism did not come from the Holy Spirit. However, I think for the sake of communication - both with each other and with new folks making their over to this blog - we need to maintain the old consistency.

I certainly hope a Visitator has been presented with those more than outrageous remarks from Fr. Anton. The potential malformation of all young L_ minds just looks worse and worse.

Fr. Anton's quote eerily reflects some of what was explained by sex offenders the other day on Oprah.

If you missed it, it's right here:

It really opens your eyes to what goes on in their heads, and why victims so often allow the abuse to go on sometimes for years.

Basically, from what I understand, the molestators are masters at first, choosing the right victims, then they making the child feel very comfortable with them, so that they are the one person in the world the child trusts, and slowly by slowly they increase intimacy.

It's hard to hear, but it's interesting to note that the molesters made the experience as painless and easy for their victims as possible. This could be why some of mm's victims don't call it a "hell." It's not like a violent rape where you are kicking and screaming.

Oprah herself was a victim of sexual abuse, and she said that it wasn't until years later that she realized how much she had been hurt.

So these LCs who had been victims, and were then kept in the LC environment for years with no contact with the outside world, which stunts to a certain extent their maturity, have probably not grown up enough to realize that what was done to them was abuse, or maybe it's easier to deny that they were abused than to face the reality that the one person in the world they trusted could have done something like that to them.

I went through a similar phase when I left the 3gf. I wouldn't allow myself to regret my time as a consecrated. It wasn't until years later that I was able to emotionally process how I had been manipulated, used, and thrown out on my ear by people I looked up to, respected, and considered my sisters in Christ.

Vampires not Sisters


I see your point, but in good conscience I cannot continue to use the word "Christ" or an abbreviation for "Christ" in this context. It seems like another mode of manipulation -- one that we do not have to submit to. Consistency is important, but there certainly is no confusion in leaving out the second letter -- and it's only a little harder to type :)

Associating the name of Our Savior with something we know to be rife with corruption and sin just does not seem right.

His is a name "at which every knee shall bow" -- and not to be misused IMHO.

Like everything else associated with the group, it is hard to say "No" -- but it seems necessary for this.

("Legion" seems to imply just the priests -- otherwise that would be a good alternative.)

Benedict--God bless him--meets with Irish bishops next week over that priest-pediphile scandal...which appears providential in so closely preceding his upcoming focus on LC matters.

The logic of using Imaculee goes like this.

If she can forgive the people who butchered her family with machetes-

you should be able to forgive the Legion for lying, using, defrauding, abusing, etc.

Those things aren't as bad as killing people with machetes. Right? So--get over it!

OR: "If Imaculee can forgive people for butchering her family with machetes, perhaps we RC can give some lip service to learning to forgive all those attacking and persecuting the Legion and the Movement. Because God knows we RC have suffered mightily at these attackers' hands this year."

P.S. And that will give the LC/RC an opportunity to congratulate themselves for their forgiving nature. In keeping with Garza's words last week, this great long Holy Saturday will give them an opportunity to become more forgiving and even more like the heart of Christ than ever before.

I think sexual abuse and spiritual abuse have alot of the same dynamics and both involve the most intimate part of a person.
Both are hidden, trust is gained and misued and I'd imagine one must be left in confusion because of that and all the head games necessary for this type of abuse to occur.

As Catholics, we should be able to forgive the Legion and Maciel. As we pray in the Our Father, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

However, forgiveness does not mean we abandon our call for accountability, or call for an apology to victims, or that we turn over our family members to the movement. We can forgive while still demanding accountability.

Bigtex,and TEIN :
Thank you for your posts 8:28 - 8:52PM! It is so obvious. This is just what they do - It is so frustrating.

I like L and R, but if that doesn't work how about "legion of Maciel" and "Maciel's reign." It is clear what is being discussed, "Christ " is not used, and the focus is on the reality of what the pervert's intentions were. Also the lower case indicates a lack of importance

About forgiveness -- Pope John Paul II forgave his would-be assassin -- but did not recommend, I believe, that he be released from prison early. He stated that the man should serve his term, if I remember correctly.

We can forgive -- but we should attempt to rectify the wrongs committed -- and the first step in doing that IMHO is to get rid of Maciel's "legion" and Maciel's "reign" -- as Ohh aptly calls them.

Forgiveness is not synonymous with "foolishness".

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