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PK

Nice. Where's the man in the collar?!?!?!

Todd Carpunky

actions that were not "appropriate" for a catholic priest? Running down 5th Avenue in nothing but a speedo is an action that is not appropriate for a catholic priest. Having a mistress, fathering illegitimate children, molesting adolescents and funneling money to your mistress and family... that's just down right outrageous.. . excuse my French, but are they fucking kidding me? I don't think they realize the gravity of the situation. He's their spiritual father? He was a complete fraud!

confused

I am surprised by Mr. Fair's statement. I was told there is an official statement coming out later in the week. He should have just said, "Wait for the forthcoming statement in which this abhorent behavior is addressed." Great concern for the victims was also expressed and mention made of reparation. As for Fr. Maciel's legacy, that seemed to be way more up in the air than Mr. Fair made it seem.

a follower

Since when did we become God to judge human failures? Think about it: turn around and see all the good he did for the world and for the church... I mean, at least he did something... you're just complaining. How cowards!!!

Angry

And how much more good could he have done had he lived a life of integrity? How much more good could have been done by the organization if it hadn't been founded by a guy who cloaked his sins in secrecy, demanded it of everyone else, and encouraged worship of himself? How much good could have been done had his own warped personality not warped the community he created?

gregorbo

Father Maciel's failings--whatever they were, take nothing away from the good works of his followers in the Legion or in Regnum Christi. But there's the rub for those in the Legion and RC. You are not and never were followers of Maciel. You are and always will be followers of Christ.

As all are we.

Right?

what?

a follower, We are commanded to judge human failures and set them straight. Maybe you can make a list of the good things he did for the world & the church.... real, concrete things that were good.

not a follower

a follower writes: Think about it: turn around and see all the good he did for the world and for the church... I mean, at least he did something... you're just complaining. How cowards!!!

GOOD HE DID!!!
GOOD HE DID!!

For God's sake (and I'm not taking the Lord's name in vain, I mean it) for God's sake, WAKE UP!!

The man didn't do any good. He has handed everyone who hates the Church ammunition for decades. He has destroyed lives.

It would have been better for him (and us) if he had never been born. (Where did I hear that before?)

Jackson

Ed Peter's analysis (on reformation) has a fatal flaw. He presupposes that LC's are normal priests.
They are badly abused, manipulated cult members, formed by Maciel. The higher the
ranking, the worse the deformation. Precisely the ones who would want to stay are
the ones most likely to be problematic, either because of their corruption or their
total identification as "true believers" in the Legion. The good ones will leave,
except for perhaps the most naive. For this reason, I believe it MUST be suppressed.
The deformation has gone on too long, too intensely. They just found out a core belief,
that Maciel was a saint (maintained even in the face of B16's actions), was a total
lie, a fraud of the greatest magnitude. ALL the members need to be sent home for
healing, recovery, and probably a good therapist. To propose 'putting them back to work'
after so much trama, is to inflict further damage on them, and to risk the recreation
of the same cult under a new name.

Jackson

To quote Ed "But everything that came from Maciel must be chucked. Absolutely everything." I agree 100%, but logically, and in actual truth, this means all the members. Every last one. They are totally immersed in Maciel, in his creation. None of them has the wisdom to discern good from bad, true from false, in terms of what is legitimate religious life, and what is not. If they did, they would have left already. The game is over. Send them home, give them a medal for doing their best. Encourage them to continue serving Christ and the Church. Put them in another foundation? No way, that's insane. Furthermore, even in their mind the LC "is the best, the greatest" for many "the only" (cult thinking). Anything less, for them, is a step down. They need psychological help, badly. I cannot emphasize this enough. The image of this great, wonderful priestly group (that just happened to have an evil founder) and can go on being great, is a bigger ILLUSION than Maciel himself, and far more harmful.

disappointed

First,

you without sin, cast the first stone...

Second,

To begin healing there must be a total and complete reveal of all that has transpired and gone wrong. The truth will set you free...it is the only story to be told...

Third,

There are a lot of good men and women who are caught up in this but truley believed that the allegations where calumny. Just as you would defend a friend or relative, they defended MM.

Lastly,

Those of you pointing fingers, making stuff up as you go, and otherwise being negative, I'm pretty sure God will have a special place for you...

AngryEyes

This "you without sin..." had to surface! The perfect platitude, right up there with: the gos-platitude about judging by their fruits. Within the RC movement, there is always talk about "the fruits" being so fabulous. What are the real "fruits" of the Legion and Regnum Christi? The first thing they do when they come into a parish or family is to cause division. This is not a good fruit. What about the loss of "Familia" founders? Good people begin good works which are coopted by the LC/RC and the founders are ousted, as happened with the founders of Familia. Good families give their sons and daughters to what they think is the Church, only to find it is a parallel church -- taking away resources and vocations from dioceses and parishes. Whatever the "fruits," the ends do not justify the cruel and deceitful means. The investigation opened by Pope Benedict XVI, then Joseph Ratzinger, must go on until we all know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth -- so help us, God!

Hopeful

Water is wonderful and essential for life, but if it comes to you through a toxic pipe, then you can hardly say that is is fine. A religious congregation is supposed to have a specific charism, that being a specific gift of the Holy Spirit for the good of the Church. Can anyone tell what the specific charism of the legionaries is, other than promoting the cult of Maciel, recruiting and fundraising. Yes, it does some good, but that is "per accidens". If it lacks a specific charism it has no justification in the Church. Normally, the life of the founder is a fundamntal part of that charism, as is the case of St. Dominic, St. Francis and St. Ignatius or St. Alphonsus. What did Maciel do in his life that could be considered a fundamental part of a charism for the building up of the Church? Did he evangelize? Did he preach popular missions, as did St. Alphonsus? Did he preach against heretics as did St. Dominic? etc. What he actually did need not be mentioned because it is mostly sordid. It is practically impossible to separate the congregation from him and his life. Everythng about it is penetrated by his deviousness. Therefore, it would appear that the best thing to do with it would be to supress it. However, that is ot likely because it would involve the Vatican recognizing either that it made a mistake by approving it, or that it was deceived by him. Unfortunately, Rome doesn't have a good track record at recognizing mistakes, especially when those who made them are now dead. So, what could be done is to appoint a Pontifical Commissioner to radically reform, or rather refound it. That would involve ditching practically all the Maciel inheritance and beginning afresh. What could it dedicate itself to if it doesn't really have a specific charism from a founder? Perhaps, it could just decide to dedicate itself to missions in Africa and Asia. Those in charge now will never do this. They are not even legitimate because the proper rules were not followed in their election. They should be farmed out to some remote places to do penance and learn to do a little pastoral work in the missions. As for spirituality, it could just adopt Ignatian spirituality.

Disappointed

I would like to correct the impression that all RC members worship at the altar of Fr. Maciel. I have been a member for years, but not an "all in" member like the ones referred to in these comments. I feel "all in" with my Catholic faith, but I in no way have ever felt the need to make Fr. Maciel a saint. RC has given my family the tools to deepen our faith in CHRIST. It appeared when we were looking for Catholic schools and it filled our spiritual need when we needed it. My husband and I have both been disgusted by the hero worship surrounding the founder. We have kept our distance and been looked down upon by other RC members because of that. We knew that something was not quite right and so did not fully participate. We rationalized that prayer, meditation and good works are a good path to heaven. The basic tenets of the movement provide good tools for growing in faith. Anything taken to extreme is suspect. Balance is far more important than being "all in". Unfortunately (or fortunately) the secrecy, hero worship, constant demands, etc. kept us at arms length for years. We knew in our hearts that we answered only to God, not men, even men of God. Now, I am glad we trusted our instincts. This news is not very surprising to me - terribly disappointing and hard to swallow- but not shocking. We are all capable of sin. What is shocking it that is had to have been covered up for years an that part is shocking and terrible.

I've been on the verge of leaving the movement countless times, but the movement game me a framework not available in the parish. My faith has always been in Christ and the Church. Because of RC I have become more involved in my parish - not less - and kept my children away from much contact with RC. I've led Bible studies, but not Fr. Maciel studies. I've learned my faith from the catechism, not the Fr. Maciel letters. I am not a typical RC member, but I am sure I am not the only member like this in the movement.

Were my RC years a waste of time? I don't think so but only God knows. Was good accomplished through RC? On the surface, and for me personally, I think yes. I'm not the same self-centered person I once was. I'd like to think I smoothed out some flaws and honed some virtues. But now I need to share this horrible news with my children - two teen boys - and while my oldest is skeptical like us, he is going to be deeply disappointed and I worry for his faith. I worry if and how this will shake my younger one's faith as well. And then I question why I remained when I did not buy into the whole Fr. Maciel fervor. Maybe because it was too hard to leave?

At this point, I hope for the complete truth to be revealed so that we can all move on. I pray for the good, innocent priests and consecrated because I cannot imagine this pain that they do not deserve when their only desire was to follow Christ. I honestly believe there are good, honest Legion priests and I despair of what will happen to them. And most of all, I pray that God reveals His plan in this scandal. He always has one, unknown to us and we can only pray that His will be done - even if that is the dissolution of the movement and the congregation. Mother most pure, pray for us!

p

I fell for you, Disappointed. Many prayers for you and your family.

What was in the heart of each one is what God regards, so it certainly was not a waste.

But now let's have full justice in regard to this situation! Let the full truth be told.

m

Dear Disappointed,
I tried to be a similar RC member as you're describing that you are near the end of my short 4 years in RC. When I first joined, I was all in, excited & joyful at what I thought God led me to. God brings good out of evil. And as I read on another blog someone's comment was, "we became better Catholics in SPITE of, not because of RC." I honestly believe that God gave me the protection I needed and helped me realize that my gusto was mis-placed. God knows each one of us and gives us what we need in doses that we can handle.

Leaving RC a year ago was excruciating. The pain of realizing, now, that some of the things that went on during encounter, retreats, formation, etc., didn't need to happen is actually healing for me. The people that were mean, didn't know they were mean because they were only following these made-up rules that they thought were from the Holy Spirit. I am no longer "disobedient" for thinking those rules were stupid, because now I know that the rules weren't part of the Holy Spirit calling me to be holier. They were made up by some sick, deranged, sexual predator.

It's been a year & I'm still healing. I pray for you & all the others who are still in who will need years & years to heal from the mess that's left.

As for serving the church. At my very last spiritual direction, I had said to the priest, "If the goal is to truly serve our parishes, why are we not going to our pastors & having meetings with them to see what they want, rather than telling them that they need K4J, Challenge, Conquest, LTP, etc.?" He said, "Hmm, interesting idea." We're NOT serving the church. We're NOT going in and saying, "Father, what can I do for you?" We're telling them, "use this program, use that program." Your service in K4J, Challenge, etc., is all holy & good, but it can and does take away from the actual needs of the parish if they have needs elsewhere.

Rob Roy

So, those evangelical christians really are very disciplined and happy people huh? Yes, they have their flaws, but at least they aren't breaking any vows and aren't hypocrits.

Wizened

***As for serving the church. At my very last spiritual direction, I had said to the priest, "If the goal is to truly serve our parishes, why are we not going to our pastors & having meetings with them to see what they want, rather than telling them that they need K4J, Challenge, Conquest, LTP, etc.?" He said, "Hmm, interesting idea."***

And that was one that I suggested to RC and LC leadership when I worked for a major diocese, and my co-workers suggested it to them, too. We'd say, "Here's the need. You could really help by doing x, y, or z."

Never took us up on it.

D.

"We must forgive."

That's just another one of those LC/RC lines, isn't it? They say them all the time, like robots. Pious, vague, useless.To cover up and escape looking at difficult situations. So rarely did I find a real answer from the LC/RCs. Are they in touch with reality? Have their minds been frozen by temperatures of no asking, no being curious, no rationalizing, no gossiping, no special friendships, lots of universal charity, of being discrete and charity and prudence and having faith. Here is another one - "We must pray".heard it before? "Yes, and... ?!"

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