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Mouse from Am Pap

For anyone discerning their relationship to the 3gF, may I recommend this post by Elizabeth Scalia?

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/theanchoress/2009/08/27/nun-news-roundup/

It's a round-up of orders that are currently receiving new postulants, and it might give you a starting point for investigating what non-RC-religious life is like.

She has a good mix of active and contemplative sisters, as well as a variety of charisms and spiritualities listed here.

By talking to some of these sisters, you may be able to hash out whether you 1. Have a vocation to religious life and 2. would be more joyful in a non RC group......

Frank

Giselle -

Long time reader, first time comboxer here.

Something you wrote really struck home, namely: "Some young men and women have recently come home for short periods of discernment." Some years ago, I was one of those young men. I had been to the Legion's summer Candidacy meat grinder in Cheshire. No discernment at all, to speak of, just a hard-core sales pitch to join LC if they liked you. Of course, while they rolled out the red carpet for the clean-cut young men from Christendom College (very nice guys, actually), I saw 3 different overweight young men visit for a day or two, and basically get blown off.

My story could be called "How the Jesuit Saved My Life." I came home in late August one summer after Candidacy very torn over whether to return to Cheshire for Novitiate, or go to a solid Catholic university for further studies. The LC superior warned me "If you don't follow your call to the Legion now, the same opportunity won't come around later on."

While I was home, I contacted a Jesuit priest for help with my internal conflict. "I want to be generous, and give everything to God, but I just don't feel right about it," I told him. "Is that selfish? If God calls me to do something I hate, then shouldn't I just follow His holy will?"

The good Jesuit responded: "Frank, one of the bedrock principals of discernment from St. Ignatius is that one should never make a serious life decision without a sense of true peace, be it marriage, religous life, job change, etc. If you don't feel at peace with the decision to join the Legion, that's a clear sign not to proceed."

An older person, as I am now, has the sales resistance to push back against the LC's
high-pressure tactics. Younger folks, generally, do not have that same sales resistance. They are idealistic and eager to please those whom they hold in esteem. That was certainly the case with me at that age.

The one smart thing I did that summer was to listen to the Jesuit. I'm so thankful to God that I never made the mistake of joining Maciel's circus.

giselle

I remember with horror several testimonials offered (they are an intrinsic part of many LC/RC activities) that included joining without that sense of peace. I remember in particular one young woman who said she went through the discernment process and didn't feel a call, but trusted her superiors (who "saw" her vocation). Then she consecrated herself (according to their lights, not her own) and then she was miserable for years. But it ended with a big smile because she found joy simply by persevering -- and "now, seven years later, I see the vocation that was hidden from me all along."

I was baffled, but a new enough Catholic that I trusted -- not in my own lights -- but in the group "who was fully approved by the Church."

Aaaack!

THE_Br._Dan

This may be a bit off topic. But shouldn't the LC/RC be investigated for civil and criminal fraud. They used the US mail service, the Internet, etc. to communicate the lies in order to get money....that is wire fraud and since there is a conspiracy of at least two or more persons, RICO would kick in too regarded organized crime...it wasn't just organized it was HIGHLY DISCIPLINED too! LOL

There is no doubt in my mind that criminal financial fraud should be pursued. Something to think about. Know any FBI agents?

THE_Br._Dan

The utterly horrific story of Jaycee Dugard reminds me of MM and what he did in a different way to hundreds of souls....the control, the abuse, the manipulation.

Mouse from Am Pap

Frank-- the Jesuit's advice probably only helped you b/c you hadn't totally assimilated the LC spirtuality yet...

From the accounts I've been reading, it seems like the LCs even use a different definition of 'peace' than the rest of the Church -- They seem to treat it as an outward demeanor, not an inward state......

Anon in STL OUT 6-09

I agree, you are supposed to show peace no matter what and if you don't truly feel it, then you probably just aren't devout enough. Peace = Lying, imo.

anonymous

if you don't feel peace, that's just the devil trying to wrest away your vocation from you -- and your eternal salvation -- and the salvation of all the souls God is counting on you to help him save. Pretty big stuff for kids just emerging from adolescence.

Jane

Is there any word on what Fr Alvaro had to say last night?

Still RC - For Now, Anyway

They feel peace all right. That's the first thing my section ass't told me upon the news of MM - she's "at peace" with it. At peace with the fact that the founder and higher-ups of the movement she's given so much of her life and family to has betrayed everyone. At peace with the knowledge that, by the LC's own admission, the other charges against MM (sexual abuse of seminarians, financial fraud) are likely to be true and that the news would likely get worse. At peace that there are genuine victims out there who have victimized again and again with no apology from the Legion and no formal acknowlegement from RC leadership that they had a hand in it (however inadvertently).

My conclusion - her peace was due essentially to a deal with the devil. Something was whispering in her ear "but look at all the good that LC/RC does - look at your own family. Where would they be without LC/RC?" - Like they'd be in a gutter somewhere.

By the way, my team leader told me the same thing - in fact, she believed he was guilty guilty guilty in 2006 - and yet she and her entire family are heavily immersed and won't (or can't) detach themselves. Again the excuse of "where would we be?".

We live in a wonderful diocese filled with Catholic vitality, incredible priests, one of the best seminaries in the country, a wonderful, holy bishop - it's a very exciting time to be a Catholic here. I know tons of good Catholic families who have managed to make use of the graces God has given them WITHOUT RC. Not to say there aren't families in RC who weren't helped immensely by some of the apostolates because they were. One apostolate in particular seemed to do a lot of good for several of those families but that apostolate existed before the LC stepped in and those testimonies were from that long-gone time. Funny, I don't hear those kinds of testimonies from this area anymore.

When a Catholic group has outlived it's ability to help either the Church or the members, it's time for the members to move on. RC is a PERSONAL CALL and the moment it's no longer helpful it's ok to drop it like a hot potato, extensive personal commitment notwithstanding. Just because the apostolates and sections aren't set up to handle your rapid departure (or stepping back during the course of the AV) doesn't make it wrong to do so. If you want to give some notice that's ok, even courteous - but not necessary and it won't damage your path to holiness. Believe me, I've had some good pastoral advice on this one and at least one bishop - Archbishop Thomas Collins of Toronto, no less - has commented publicly that he would not be surprised if many rightly left as a result of the present catastrophe. And of course we all recall what Archbishop O'Brien said regarding any personal recommendation to join Regnum Christi at this time.

anonymous

"the first thing my section ass't told me upon the news of MM - she's "at peace" with it"

I think by 'at peace' she meant 'in denial.'

anonymous

Peace??? Only someone who is totally and completely brainwashed could be at peace with this situation. There is something REALLY wrong when a person doesn't get upset when grave injustices have been committed...really, really wrong.

Or, they have sold their souls...I know several LCs and 3gf who are definitely in this category, unfortunately.

Anon in STL OUT 6-09

Anon: Peace??? Only someone who is totally and completely brainwashed could be at peace with this situation. There is something REALLY wrong when a person doesn't get upset when grave injustices have been committed...really, really wrong.

Yep, there you have it. This is a desperate situation and I hope and pray the Church speaks clearly on this after the Visitation.

Pete Vere

Forgive me for putting you on the spot, Still RC - For Now, Anyway, and please don't answer if this is too personal, but why are you still RC if you feel this strongly?

Again, I appreciate your comments and insights, and I don't want to pry - and you're more than welcome to tell me to mind my own business - but your answer could help many of us on the outside understand.

Cindy Bradtmueller

Still RC - I too would love to know your story. I think I read somewhere that you are doing damage control. Your comments are very helpful. Several of my friends have kids that have gone to summer camps and apostolic schools and I worry for them and how this will all turn out. I left in April.

Still RC - For Now, Anyway

No problem at all Pete. It's a very simple reason - I, personally, do not feel called away from RC. I feel a tremendous responsibility to help set the record straight for the benefit of the Church and her members. And I'm at peace. If it changes I'm out of there yesterday but this is where I think God wants me at this time, being who I am and doing what I can.

Still RC - For Now, Anyway

Yikes - damage control - I hope I didn't say that!

:)

Pete Vere

Understood. Thanks for explaining. Will keep you in prayer, as well as those who you are helping.

anonymous

Personally, it's very clear to me that the good they do, can be done outside of the movement quite easily. The bad they do can't be undone once they do it, and all the good they do just acts as a cover for their mind games that are destroying the most basic and fundamental capacities of free will in our youth.

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