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Actually just to be pedantic since I know the family well, 3 of the sons are with the LC. Fr Peter has an ordained brother (2004) whi is in Poland and Br Simon who apparently will be ordained next year in Rome....their parents are fully committed RC members of the kind that will remain so until 'then end'. They are beautiful people who are completely unable to see the problems for what they are. Theirs is a lifetime vocation in every respect to the movement. Depending on what will happen they are in for a very hard time.

God bless them and my prayers are with them. Their commitment should be to Christ and the Church.

Oh, and giselle? I'm not playing!!

And just to add to what Ursula has said, Fr Peter Devereaux was guided to the Legion by a non-LC priest in NZ. He went to see and stayed. His parents incorporated to the Movement layer, without knowing much about it, when visiting him as a seminarian.

And if he does give good advice, it will possibly be because his parents have a generous, committed and beautiful marriage. And they are very prayerful people who are deeply committed to Christ and the Church. They are also very loyal to their sons and once they have given their commitment to something. This time ahead is going to be very difficult and my heart goes out to them.

Giselle, dear,
I have been contributing from Mexico ever since things started in February. Today I got a personal, private appeal from our hero, Pete Vere, on a Spanish source. I duly complied. But this evening I was censored in his blog. After calling Maciel a paederast and worse for months, I find it a bit rich. But they confess (Chonak & Vere) that they feel threatened... Isn't that a typically Maciel-like attitude?
Anyway, I'd rather have my comments TOTALLY censored than maimed -as was the case.

I was incredibly hopeful back in 1999 when Fr. Emilio visited Raleigh, NC that my wife would be overwhelmed by the sanctity of the LCs and join RC.

The only thing she remembers about Fr. Emilio's talk was his suggestion that wives have the house clean and a good drink ready for their husband when he came in from a long, tiring day.

Since she has worked part or full time for most of our married life together (now 31+ years), the suggestion didn't go over well with her. She thought I should have the house clean and a drink ready for her instead.

She resisted any further attempts to get her into RC (the same-gender groupings weren't big for her either--she wanted to do stuff that would allow us to spend more time together. So we gravitated to Small Christian Community groups.)

I've heard many priests give talks on marriage. Some were really bad. Most were forgettable. It was LCs, however, on several different occasions in SD that brought up the concept of being totally generous with my spouse.

That was good advice, and very memorable (if not always easy to follow.)

I hate to say it, but I would trust that Fr. Peter's talk will be a good one and helpful to the couples who attend.

Juana: I think Pete explained himself more than adequately here (complete with apology to you).

http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/2009/09/exit-stage-cent.html

Let's make sure that in our feeding frenzy we don't turn on each other. Assume the best -- we're trying to unmask a clever beast and it's difficult work. Peace.

Political advisers know the value of keeping the message simple and on point.

The most devastating revelation that I've read on this site in the past two weeks was the idea that the entire structure, methodology and mystique of the LC/RC organization was carefully crafted to support, supply, hide and finally sanctify the personality of a serial pedophile and sociopath.

That's a simple message.

All of the "good works"--the schools, the clubs, the apostolates, the writings, the encounters, the renewals, the Conventions, the SPEX, the SDs--all of these were simply a veneer to support MM in his many pursuits.

And because so many of these veneer items were the normal activities of a conscientious Catholic, they helped to mask the toxicity of the "extras" supplied by the methodology and mystique of the Movement. The hyperactivity, busy-ness, full bore proselytism, secretiveness, denials, closed loop communications, "vow of charity" didn't seem like bad things when held against the goodness of the real-deal Catholic practices.

Strip the beast of its clothing and the not-so-pretty reality begins to emerge

Giselle: you are coming at all of this from many different directions, but it is starting to have a compounding effect. Keep stripping the clothes off.

Not sure about the program at St. Peter Chanel, but the following announcement was in St. Monica's bulletin on 9/13:

"Familia Atlanta brings you the first of two series of Fascinating Marriages: Dating Your Spouse

Fall in love all over again as you rediscover those intimate details that make up your spouse in the way God intended. Couples who stay connected with each other's priorities, big and small, are better prepared to cope with stressful events and conflict. The more you know and understand about each other, the easier it is to keep connected as life swirls around you.

Take some time out to reignite that flame in your Marriage, so it can be all Christ wants it to be!

St. Monica Church, 1700 Buford Hwy, Duluth GA

Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:00-9:30 pm

A FREE evening for couples:
Wine and Cheese Reception
"Dating your Spouse"
"Living the Theology of the Body"
Eucharistic Adoration
Confessions available"

Steve,

I laughed out loud at your wife's reaction to Fr. Emilio's marital advice! LOL Good for her for having her wits about her. These types of comments are what SHOULD raise red flags.

That said, I try to have the house clean, dinner ready, and a drink in hand when my husband gets home. NOT because I think it's my job, but because I love him and want to give that moment to him as a gift. I have a full-time job (am actually primary wage-earner in our household), and he often does the same for me.

So my problem is not so much with Fr. Emilio's suggestions but with the fact that he indicates this is something specifically that the WIFE should be doing. To me, it should be both spouses making the moment the other spouse walks through the door a happy one.

I tend to stay away from priests when it comes to marital advice because I've had so many friends get such bad advice from priests (LC and non-LC alike). Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way, and that's what I have found is often lacking in priestly marital advice. But that's just my personal experience, and I am sure there are some priests out there who can give great marriage counseling/advice.

Let's hope Fr. Peter is one of them.

WHY AM I LIVING IN L/C R/C CAPITAL OF THE WORLD ATLANTA??????
I want to MOVE and GET away from this parasite in the Churches down here.
Anyone in Atlanta will this ever go AWAY or are we doomed for life with this???????????

My poor brother in the Legion has always suggested I am not raising my children properly. Heaven knows he has all the experience through the Legion in raising children! He never fails to tell me I should be sending them to the Apostolic schools and my girls should give a year to work for the Legion! My husband and I would not dare listen to a Legionary for advice on our marriage.

Allergic,

Not sure what the atmosphere is for Catholicism in Atlanta, but having lived in another area of the South, I can understand how LC/RC could easily gain a stronghold there.

It was hard to be Catholic in an area where there was so little support or understanding of the Catholic Church. In high school, I was once asked if we wore "beanie caps"!! LOL That's how bad the ignorance was (granted, I lived in a rural, mountainous region that has had little exposure to Catholicism over the past few hundred years).

So it wouldn't surprise me if LC/RC didn't find a massive welcoming committee waiting for them down there in the South----Catholics so desperate to find a way to protect and express their Catholic identity in an area of the country where Catholicism may not have garnered much respect prior to that.

I have no idea if that theory is actually applicable to the Atlanta area or not, but with my southern upbringing, I can understand how eagerly Catholics in that region might grasp onto something like LC/RC.

Needless to say they (L/C ) are ONLY IN THE WEALTHIEST areas where there is lots of money!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone down here envies the Baptist Churches that have wonderful children and youth programs.So it did seem that this was a blessing for the Catholic Church (until we saw all the faithful Catholics in Church who used to do so much work get SUCKED into R/C and we were left with fewer and fewer people)
We put it all together and realised that this was BLEEDING the Catholic Church dry.
This is NOT a rural red neck area at all.Its like Hollywood theres a high percent of Catholics here.
It is EVIL[l/c and r/c}
when you see this beast in full swing.
A beast that prowls the Catholic Church looking for someone to eat.
Many Priests are clueless.

St Michael the Archangel be our PROTECTION against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
Hope you are all familiar with this prayer.

Anyone else repelled by the idea of "dating your spouse"? The term "dating" suggests non-commitment, uncertainty. The whole idea seems to suggest that the pre-marriage period is more attractive that marriage itself. It's like telling 50-something women: "Try this product and you'll look and feel like a teenager again!"--as if youth, not maturity were our ideal. How depressing.

I also resent the idea of priests presuming to give married couples "tips" for strong holy marriages. Tips are something experts offer novices.

There are about a million things wrong with the Legion, but I just don't see the quality of their marriage advice as one of them. In my own experience, there simply isn't any one-size-fits-all approach to these issues within the RC, and I haven't personally encountered anything off-base in this area.

That said, the heavy time commitments that Regnum Christi members are pressured to make to organizing various events and activities is clearly detrimental to marriage and family life.

I might qualify my comment above by noting that Regnum Christi members (again, this is only anecdotal) tend to be a bit over-enthusiastic about JPII's "theology of the body," as interpreted by Christopher West and others.

To be clear, I think TOTB as developed by Pope John Paul II is a profound contribution to Catholic thinking about marriage, celibacy, and self-giving. But there are dangerous tendencies in some of the popular interpretations of it that can lead otherwise faithful Catholics off the rails.

Allergic,

You mean we shouldn't expect to see LC/RC setting up camp in any poor, rural hillbilly regions of the South anytime soon?

What a surprise. LOL

Giselle,

I recently said to my husband, "Why does everything have to sound so HARD all the time?" in response to some Catholic posting someplace about all the dangers of practicing NFP couples incorrectly using NFP for selfish reasons and thus objectifying each other.

I'm not bringing this up to start a debate about NFP and objectification, but to point out that sometimes it seems that zealous Catholics are so overly scrupulous about things that it sucks all the joy right out of life.

I've seen so many Catholics almost seem suspicious of being joyously, crazy in love after decades of being married. As if going through all the travails that life necessarily brings along with it should suck the joy right out of marriage, and if it doesn't, there is something suspect about a relationship.

I just think that is such a sad and sour way of looking at the great gift of marriage. Sure it's hard at times. But if that's what you continually focus on---how HARD it is, how much suffering it brings us, how stressful it is--how are you ever going to be able to enjoy it?

I'd rather focus on the joys of it. Not in a way that ignores difficulties, but in a way that puts them in some perspective. I have found personally that by enjoying all the wonderful aspects of being married, we build the strengthened bond that is so helpful in getting through the tough times.

We've been through a bit in our time---10 pregnancies in as many years, 4 of them lost to miscarriage; financial ruin to the point of a brief stint of homelessness (luckily we had family to stay with, but it required us to be apart from each other one summer); loss of three of our four parents (one under tragic and sudden circumstances); very serious chronic disease that has life-long implications; and just all the other stuff that goes along with raising a large family. I mention this not to wear all this suffering as some sort of badge of honor (far from it, I avoid suffering as much as possible! LOL No martyr here!), but to point out that it's possible to go through a lot of the cr*p life brings with it and still be crazy in love.

That's not to say we haven't been through some less-than-stellar moments where we hardly felt like the soulmates we know we are :)

I guess I just wish more of the "orthodox" Catholics I know seemed to view marriage as a source of joy rather than as a kind of ball-and-chain that is going to win us our crown in heaven due to all the suffering we have to endure because of it. Can't we win our crown by ENJOYING the great gifts God has given us instead? I sure hope so.

Katie -- I am not all offended by the concept of "dating your spouse". As a husband and father, I know that it is too easy to get complacent with the status quo. It takes work to keep a marriage alive, so it is good to have a chance to "date" my wife and remind her and myself how important she is to me.

I think there is a tendency to parse everything that comes from the LC and find fault with it. There are enough real problems with the LC that we don't need to find problems where none exist.

Anon--

I don't know--in my experience, the orthodox Catholics tend to have good marriages too-- mostly because they're friends on top of everything else, so even when they bug each other, they'd rather be together than apart.

The ones who have the joyless marriages seem to be, frankly, joyless people even without the marriage-- the whole 'grind of Orthodoxy' thing rather than 'suprised by joy!'

I tend to assume it's a personality thing, since they're the same people who can;t go to Mass without toting a notebook to take down possible canon-law violations, and who constantly look at other families, trying to gauge whether they're going to communion in a state of mortal sin based on the number of kids they have?!?!?!??????

Whatever that kind of an outlook is, it's NEITHER Catholic nor Orthodox....

(*note... I USED to be on that path when younger. And then I ran across a really good confessor who gave me an earful about scruples and forgiveness and trust and whatnot...... So for those joyless couples you know, I'd pray really hard that they find a good confessor!)

I'm all in favor of working at fanning the flame of spousal love at the heart of marriage. All in favor of spouses cultivating tenderness and romance in their relationship with one another, etc. Just not in favor of touting "dating your spouse"--which suggests that the early part of the relationship is the best and most attractive part. Dating is the pre-covenant phase of things. And for all the emotional high of falling in love, it cannot compare in beauty, depth and preciousness with the love achieved over years and decades of a lived sacramental union of love.
Should an oak tree regret not being a sapling?

Anon @ 9:09 am:

I think you hit on a big reason why the LC was able to make so much headway in Atl.

Anon: You have hit one of my hot buttons with your mention of NFP and a bad, conscience-burdening approach to marriage that is all too prevalent in Catholic circles. But, since getting into it would take us off topic here, I hope Giselle won't mind if I link to my own blog, where I've just opened a thread on the topic for anyone interested.
http://www.thepersonalistproject.org/index.php/TPP/the_linde/

Allergic: I know the LC/RC centers in wealthy areas, but I also know several families VERY involved who struggle financially. Well intentioned people were sucked in from all levels.

Katie, I agree with DF. I think you are debating semantics here.

I would be surprised if DF or even the people running the conference/seminar would disagree with the assertions you make re:marriage.

I for one am not offended by the dating lingo. To me it implies an ongoing effort to know and woo your spouse. My husband recently set up a monthly date night appt. and I couldn't be happier!

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