Helpful Articles

Blog powered by TypePad

Comment Policy

  • All constructive comments will be accepted.
    Commenting anonymously is certainly permitted as long as it adds to the understanding of this topic. The point of this site is to foster love for Christ, while analyzing the place of Regnum Christi in the Church. (Please know that no one will be able to track your comments -- neither the readers nor the webmaster. We all understand the hesitancy in speaking about this experience and the fallout that can accrue. All comments will only bear the information you choose to reveal.)

« Offering one's health for the Kingdom | Main | Miami Alert »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8345201d369e20128756382f7970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference First AV reports submitted:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Anonymous

Wow!
A few comments-
1) It is clear that the security the Legion structure uses to process difficulties is not faith, hope and love, but control, authority and denial. In some ways we have yet to witness the public face of what many Legionary really feel as it is all bottled up in the command and control that is centered in the person of the General Director. That is the insane legacy of MM.

2) In some way, it seems many Legionaries seem to have their heads screwed on right (-ie. wanting full transparency, an apology, a full review of leadership) they just cannot get the full information they need to act, nor do they have any voice to act with. Even to leave (when years have been invested in the order) means you have enough information access to gain certainty about what is going on. How many can read the blogs etc..? Who wants to jump ship when you cannot tell if the boat is sinking...

3. Would be great to setup a network to help Legion priests find willing bishops, give them a place to get settled and serve the Church more fruitfully..

Mouse from Am Pap

I like that the article specifies that the investigation is NOT about Maciel's vices, but about the structural problems in the Legion-- I wish more RC/LC folk would get to read this, so they UNDERSTAND. The Vatican KNOWS Maciel was bad, that's why they "invited him to prayer and penance"...

The investigation is now about the fact that the Legion itself is sick......

I know so many who keep insisting this is all about the mistress (which proves he's not a sex abuser!)... But at this point, I assume the blindness is willfull.....

Anonymous

Mouse,
Just keep in mind the present is often understood from the past. An order is not simply its works, but its spirit (.ie spirituality) which emerges from the period of foundation. The reason the denial is so strong about the 40's-50's is that they were crucial years in which much of 'spirituality' came together. What is happening is the very history that would sustain a sense of a charism of the founder, or even a founding charism, legitimately recognized, would be totally defunct in their hearts, if most LCs were permitted to reflect on how they came about as an institute. Degrees of complicitness of some mega-Legionary cofounders in that period would put the final nails in the coffin, and bring back the idea of re-foundation or dissolution. Right now, as I read it, the AV is focused only on reform which is not the same.
What is really happening at the top is a bait and switch,ie. the hope that all will just forget about the founder and foundation years, and then just switch the sense of their own legitimacy with other concepts disingenuously put together with no full reconciliation with the dark past. What this will do, is leave, at best, the LC as a spiritually vacant if not bankrupt institute, not at ready for its mission. Death will happen in such cases I think, but it will be by a slow bleed.

Bigtex

The article and comments are balm to my troubled soul. Finally, it seems that enough of the right people are starting to get it.

Out of RC and in peace!

"Everything that has been said is true," says this priest, "and has been known to some LC superiors and to the Holy See for at least twenty years as acknowledged by the Vicar General, Luis Garza,pronounced at internal conferences this summer."
I don't believe the Holy See knew of the revelations of MM for last 20 years, I think Luis Garza told the congregation this so that the LC priests would assume that if the Pope knew all along and did nothing, it would be ok for them to go on as "business as usual".

White Tree

Anonymous,

Why do you think the AV is focused on reform at this time? I guess I had a different take when I read that the Holy Father is trying to determine if the constitutions followed today correspond with the original constitutions that were approved. If the Holy Father is looking at the finances and holdings of the LC, maybe he's trying to figure out how to wrest them from the Legion's control. If it can be proven that the LC constitutions followed then or now are invalid, certainly a case could be made for dissolution.

Claire

Giselle,

You have given voice -- beautifully -- to the concerns, hopes, fears and finally faith that we all feel in the midst of this awful time, with our outrage at LC/RC and all the crimes it has apparently committed and still commits.

That Our Blessed Mother has heard and will answer our humble novena prayers!

Steve

Giselle:

How was the Legion able to escape the mammoth law suits over priest sex abuse of male minors that hit Boston, LA and almost everywhere in between?

The last thread on this blog included more than one testimony of young men abused by a LCs one or more generations out from Maciel.

While I agree with you that the scope of the LC scandal is much bigger than the evil in Boston, I'm still puzzled why they haven't had to deal with SNAP or other entities.

Fr. William used to visit our section in Raleigh and we would see him when we were on retreat at OLB. The testimony concerning his abuse of male minors was on the REGAIN site during this time.

I remember thinking back in the late 90s and early 2000s when MM would suddenly not be able to attend a Convention or major conference in the US, that maybe he was avoiding a possible arrest situation.

Probably not, but he seemed to go AWOL for major north American appearances after the Hartford Courant series broke. Are the other LCs who have been accused of similar activities still travelling about on behalf of the Legion in the US?

HH

Easy answer: foreign nationals abusing kids from other countries in third countries. All with their own varying statutes of limitations.... All protected by the private vow, and by its insidious after effects.

Maciel thought out his machine very well.

Pete Vere

In fairness to SNAP, I know that several folks within the Church that I believe have worked closely with SNAP in the past - including canonist Fr. Tom Doyle and folks at the National Catholic Reporter - reached out to Maciel's victims and tried to draw attention to what was going on. For those who are interested, I've posted some other thoughts at Catholic Light (I've found some temporary unrestricted internet access).

MariGold

Steve -- When Regain first began, and the talk was free-flowing on the board (which has had to come down, since the lawsuit) there was alot of open discussion about these LC/RC conventions and Maciel's scheduled appearance. Several who were openly talking on the board declared that they would go to the conference and openly confront Maciel with his crimes. Was this reported to Maciel? I believe that it was. At the conventions where I first saw him, he would arrive with a flying wedge of LC priests flanking him, so that he could raise his hands and close his eyes in beatific serenity. Maybe he was just plain high. I thought at the time, "A modest man does not behave like this; a saint would not permit this kind of adulation." But most of the mega-conferences were held prior to the establishment of Regain. Maciel and his goons knew that there could be a public scene that would erupt without warning and cause the "beatific smile" to end. Others who knew him said that Maciel was a coward. And, it may have been even simpler than this: maybe the conference promoters said the Founder would be there so as to bring in more attendees. The more who came, the greater the money taken in. PG, never again!

Anonymous

RE: "and has been known to some LC superiors and to the Holy See for at least twenty years as acknowledged by the Vicar General, Luis Garza,pronounced at internal conferences this summer."

Known for 20 years...hmmm. Known in the sense of 'stories' or rumours and known in the sense of certitude to act juridically and authoritatevly can be two different things. Depends among other things: on who the information came from, level of credibility. In fact you could even say the Holy See had 'known', ie. reports, from 50's. I think we should stick with the original accusers' timeline of 1997 when a systematic and prolonged campaign of awareness was launched. Files were full by then, but to act require the intestinal fortitude to officially and thoroughly investigate which began in December of 2004 via the CDF.

anon05

The Regain discussion board was also divulging a lot of information on the discrepancies of the Legion constitutions with what would have been acceptable by canon law. I think this may have made them very nervous and hence the lawsuit. How interesting that this is one of the major issues the Visitors were sent to investigate. I wonder if they were able to obtain the information that the Legion were trying so hard to hide long before the official investigation. St Michael the Archangel, pray for us and protect the Holiness of the priesthood!

DaniNZ - now OUT

I hope this is true. Is it a reliable resource?

HH

Stop trying to defend the hierarchy ipso facto. There is no reason for it, and plenty of reason to think that they may have known, since there is precedent: the cases here in the US.

ambivalentPC

Lucky the constitutions -- at least large parts of them -- are publicly available now. So much for the lawsuit -- that was the one thing they COULDN'T keep off the internet.

Anonymous

And the pasch of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And he found in the temple them that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting.

And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.

And to them that sold doves he said: Take these things hence, and make not the house of my Father a house of traffic. And his disciples remembered, that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up.

Jn 2: 13-17


I hope that through the results of the Visitation, the LC/RC moneychangers will be driven out of our Lord's house.

Anon

There is an error in the translation that is significant. Under the "distrust and dissension" paragraph:
"to the distress of many priests and consecrated the RC for the future since the retirements of priests and lay members. "
It should read:
"to the distress of many priests and consecrated for their future, and because of the exit (or abandonment) of priests and lay members."
Just to be clear they did not "retire"- in fact there are no LCs or 3gfs old enough to "retire".
I just had to clarify this.

Anonymous

One part that is not clear to me- regarding the Constitutions: is it that the current printed edition of their Constitutions that LCs have is what is at issue ( ie. vs. the version that resides in the Congregation for Religious) or does it deal with the actual living of their printed version of the Constitutions which is as approved by the Holy See. If the first, it is a manipulation of the first order on the part of leadership responsible.

giselle

The hard-copies of the constitutions are specifically an issue. They are a tightly-held secret, since there are at least three known versions. It is entirely possible that the version approved by the CDF is not what is used in the Legion, which may be why they sued Regain over having a purported copy that revealed that sad fact. There was no copy, but even making portions of the Consitutions known was cited as "harmful to the Legion mission." Um, yeah.

Mouse from Am Pap

I thought all religious constitutions were supposed to be public record? I mean, I've heard some groups criticized because the only easy-to-find copies are in Latin, but aren't they all supposed to be public and out there?

Also, any chance they're looking into the norms as well? Isn't that where a LOT of the weirder stuff comes from?

I was thinking today how ironic it is that all this will be coming to a head right around the feast of Christ the King.... did the Vatican do that on purpose?

giselle

Mouse, at the time that the Legion sued ReGain, we felt like it was a mugging in a dark alley. It happened in August when typically no one is in Rome, most folks in the West are in vacation mode, and the reason (that we made public the Constitutions) was ludicrous given your point -- that such documents are supposed to be the patrimony of the Church. (Yes, the norms are more damning, but the approval of the Constitutions was based on integrity of the document -- which was missing. That's essential.)

For the record, everything mentioned in the account above was EXACLY why the Legion sued ReGain. Beyond the Constitutions, it was the coercion that people tried to share on the discussion board, the nature of the private vows, and the strategy to isolate and neutralise everyone who complained, making each one feel as if he was crazy.

And then there's the money...

Ursula

Giselle, could the LC sue you as in try to stop this blog? It seems crazy to me that they were able to shut down exLC blog and Regain, particularly with US laws protecting freedom of speech?

giselle

While they're being pretty brazen in other ways, I don't worry about that possibility. But then I don't worry about a lot of things. When my husband managed to survive landing his jet on aircraft carriers for as many years as he did, I learned that worrying was useless.

Jeannette

imo, the norms are weirder than the constitutions, the general chapters are weirder than the norms (norms is the one with 3 or 4 pages on how to eat various food), and the Letters in Envoy etc are the weirdest of all.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment