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pb

What is a bishop going to do with all of those items that are given to him? Such a love bomb may prove to be more of a burden than the gift it is "intended" to be.

Anonymous

My children were in an LC school for a few years. They used to sing this really stupid you're number one song to the Bishop when he came to our school. What are the odds that the Bishop was embarassed every time. He has to say thank you to the children and probably felt sorry for them too. The poor little critters are taught to suck up to the Bishop while in preschool. There is no end to who the LC's will use to do their bidding. Clap you say? I'm giving this one a thumbs down.

Aaron

This sycophant behaviour really creeps me out - do they not understand that people see through their deception?

They are BUTTERING UP the bish. Why not simply offer all the sacrifices and prayers for him and NOT let him know? Would it be less of a help for him? would it be less of benefit for the Legion?!!

and I wonder how many of the gifts donated will go straight to the LC christmas celebrations fund?

Claire

LC/RC schmoozing again?

I don't imagine the bishops are susceptible to that kind of servile flattery.

m

I don't believe you're jaded, I think your conscience is telling you the difference between right and wrong. There are several places in the bible that warn us against these types of prideful displays (paraphrased): Go to your heavenly Father in secret & pray to Him; When you're praying and fasting, don't let anyone else know; Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So much for their charism being "Basic Catholicism 101" They're actually digging themselves a deeper, spiritually dangerous hole.

Daniel

I challenge the Legion of Christ to deliver all of their Christmas baskets and the spiritual boquets to the bishops anonymously. The bishops would still experience all of the conoslation and affection that the gift baskets and boquets exude, plus they would be pleasantly intrigued by the fact that it was done as an act of humility instead of a self-serving PR shmooze.

I imagine that if they had to do it anonymously, they would not deliver anything. Nothing. Every supposed good deed of theirs has to be recognized, preferably in the form of a thank-you note which can then be scanned and used for further self-promotion.

Oh, did they also mention to the good bishop that this would be the last Christmas basket and boquet from Gateway Academy since the Legion of Christ has decided it wants to focus it's millions on other more worthy investments?

SR

I used to be in Familia and a couple of days before Easter, the "Familia Trainer" called the group and asked us to prepare gift baskets for the parish priests (we had about 48 hours to put this in place and hand deliver them). She explained that the "order" came from "above" her and that it had to be done. I voiced my annoyment at the last minute request (we also had to pay for everything in the said baskets) and was answered: "What does Jesus want you to do?" I was entirely speechless! I wish I had known more about RC at the time to be able to answer back. So, we took some time from other commitments to family and parishes, etc. and we did it. To this day, I still feel shame at the whole incident: my reaction, their reaction, I am not sure if it is because I still feel guilty at my lack of "listening to Jesus" or that I was so defenseless (and it is so little compared to what other people have gone through with this movement).
It is just that the price tag attached to these gifts might be more than monetary.

nyota

What a bunch of bootlickers. I think most bishops would be able to see right through this. So let them go ahead and do ridiculous things like this and show the bishop who they REALLY are.

Dilbert

It is just one more example of using o.p.g. (other people's generosity) to achieve one's own agenda. Anyone who wishes to donate a gift or make a donation to their bishop should be able to do this on their own. Instead, they are being asked to pass all their gifts and prayers through R.C. so that they can claim all the credit. It sounds more like a minor form of bribery to me to exert control over the bishop to help prevent him from kicking them out like other bishops have done.

Julia

I hated those spiritual bouquets. I visited two or three Carmelite convents, and just them telling me that they are praying for me was enough. I didn't need them to make this big craft project to prove it. Again, lots of show.

bruce

my first thought is that the bishop and people like him enjoy the schmooze. its been going on for years by LC/RC. so it must be working. so they must like it.

LC/RC is always in survival mode, meaning they know how to grovel at the foot of power. and if it takes groveling to survive then they will grovel harder and harder.

i hate to say it but i think this is part of survival in the catholic church at that level.

i hope i am wrong but look how long LC/RC has kept it up?

and we all say "how good they are at it?" how long now? 60 years they have been perfecting the way to grovel at the foot of power? and there has always been someone up there that high who really digs it? and wants them back?

bruce

my second thought sums up my first thought. there is a codependent relationship going on between LC/RC and either certain individuals in positions of power, or there is a systemic codependency between LC/RC and how power works generically in the church.
I would say some of both, which does not help the situation any better.

Still RC - For Now, Anyway

"I challenge the Legion of Christ to deliver all of their Christmas baskets and the spiritual boquets to the bishops anonymously."

Impossible. It would conflict with their marketing strategy.

The LC runs like a business and in this case they are utilizing the standard practice of any "good service provider" to recognize their primary clientele and say "Thank you for your continued patronage" during the holiday season. It's no different from what my realtor, accountant, or financial advisor would do for me if I were a big honcho client of theirs.

If you think about it the good bishop is THE client in the St. Louis area - if he's unhappy there goes that market.

Just another example of MM's "entrepreneurial genius". In reality he read a marketing book somewhere along the way and just applied the techniques to his organization of priests.

Back to Basics

"It is just one more example of using o.p.g. (other people's generosity) to achieve one's own agenda........ Instead, they are being asked to pass all their gifts and prayers through R.C. so that they can claim all the credit."

I think Dilbert makes a very interesting point here.

Claire

I think Bruce asks a good question.

All a bishop would have to do is to direct his staff to turn over all gifts, without noting the donors, to charity.

I guess lobbyists operate in places other than the U.S. Congress! In fact, LC/RC makes Haliburton look amateurish! At least Haliburton's alleged bribes were made with the company's own money -- they didn't go to their local churches and raise money to make bribes!

My Name

anyone notice the RC/LC websites are down?

RDL

It's 10AM and the LC/RC websites are still down. Why? Unusual for BOTH to be down. St. Nicholas! Pray for us -- save those poor kids from the pickle barrel and give the maidens some $$ to get married -- we need the Patron Saint of Children in on this, since first and last, the LC/RC is about the abuse of children in some form or another.

giselle

Their sites work for me -- but today would be a great day to give the children a real gift. No more LC lumps of coal in the shoes, coal that's actually white-washed to look like rock candy.

anon

The LC site was down, now up for me...just a wild, momentary dream that the Vatican group meeting this weekend might be moving that decisively and fast!

Anon in STL

The principal's note said: A few weeks ago, Fr. Scott and Fr. James visited Archbishop Carlson to welcome him to St. Louis. They delivered a spiritual bouquet containing the prayers and sacrifices of our students and a Gateway Academy photo album. I recently received a handwritten note from the Archbishop thanking our community for the gifts and noting the great strength he receives from the spiritual bouquet

This is typical for GA. The send a gift/bouquet to an Abp or Pastor or whoever. Then, when they receive a thank you note, they publicize it. This has happened for years and others have noted that the implied message is, 'see, the Abp loves and approves of us.'

Not only should they not publicize the gifts in the first place, but they should also not publicize the thank you notes. The current Abp of St. Louis should be aware that this is a pattern. If he's not, it is problematic imo.

ambivalentPC

I don't know, the "spiritual bouquet to the bishop" idea isn't a new one. Our (non-RC) Catholic school did the same for ours.

Now a gift basket is a bit of a step too far. So is telling everyone about the gift you gave the bishop and how grateful he was. Just tell the bishop that you are praying for and supporting him -- no one else has to know.

Anon

If the website was down for awhile, they were probably removing controversial information to show the Visitators that they are already reforming. Lies. Lies. Lies and more lies!

bsing

I'm sorry, but although I agree with many rational critiques of LC / RC, this post reveals a jadedness and bitterness that is sad and disappointing.

Claire

bsing,

By itself, a spiritual bouquet from a group, with no announcements, would be unremarkable.

Combined with all the other LC/RC marketing ploys, it follows the pattern of "hard sell" and "schmooze for approval to facilitate fundraising."

gregorbo

Beyond the sending of spiritual bouquets and other gifts to express gratitude and support (in and of themselves, nothing really wrong there), I'm disturbed by the 180 regarding LC messages to RC about activities in support of local parishes and dioceses.

LC language in this regard makes it sound like they have always sought ways to support local Bishops--when, in practice, this has rarely been the case.

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