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I have a question about "formation dialogue" given to the students at LC schools. Is the intention the same? To evaluate the student for future potential?

Also, where did the idea of the "root sin" come from? I wonder what MM's root sin was found to be! LOL!

White Tree,

Yes. This is exactly the intention. Remember 1st of all that schools exist in Regnum with the sole purpose of recruiting members for the movement. It's not a social work, it's not for the advancement of Christian culture, and it's not b/c a bishop or the pope asked for a school. They may tell you this, but I studied R_ methodology, and they actually told us that schools are our #1 apostolate, especially for the 3gf, b/c they are the #1 recruiting pool for vocations for R/L.

Second, the methodology of R/L is person-to-person contact. That means, to recruit for vocations, we needed to figure out a way to give 3gfs quality "face time" with potential recruits. Well, this was so easy! We'll call it spiritual direction!!!

They couldn't just give it to the "leader girls" who they wanted to recruit, so they give it to ALL students as a requirement...but they normally spend more time and give SD more often with the "leaders."

They also do reports and inform their superior about how the "SD" went, and especially for the "leaders" they inform how integrated that girl is becoming, how far along they are in the recruiting process, and the even report on any problems the girl is having that was supposedly said in confidence to the 3gf.

All very sick!

SO DONE writes: Remember 1st of all that schools exist in Regnum with the sole purpose of recruiting members for the movement.

I can attest to that. Nuestro Fraude was never shy about this fact, and called his schools: "semilleros de vocaciones a la legión y al reino." (Seedbeds of vocations to the legion and the kingdom.)

Parents with children in Lm/Rm schools who think their kids are safe and simply getting a Catholic education are either willful participants, ignorant, or deceiving themselves.

Around here, "formation dialogue" started happening when news got around that "spiritual direction" of children was no longer allowed.

Wave a magic Legion wand, and instantly they can say they don't give spiritual direction to children anymore. Voila!

Of course, everybody knows what they do in "formation dialogue" is exactly the same thing they did in "spiritual direction". I actually laughed out loud when the Legion did this.

Boy, do they ever think we are stupid.

TEIN,

You know what? Sometimes we are!! We go along with it and allow ourselves to be fooled!

So, even if a school has had dismal results in recent years in terms of priestly vocations, the "vocations" to RC are deemed just as valuable? Perhaps more valuable? That's the only reason I can think of why Legion wants to remain in some areas. And you're positive that absolutely NOTHING has changed re: the true intents of the schools? For the longest time I believed that Legion saw priestly vocations as bonuses, but the original intent of MM was no longer the case. Recently, I have come to believe that I am wrong. I just want to confirm.

This quote above is sooo good. It hits exactly what troubled me most in my coworker years. Actually I had such a mixed experience of both happy and unhappy. It confuses me sometimes. Happy, cause they sort of gave me what I needed as a young woman (going out to the world, being "special", meeting lots of people, but from the beginning I observed how they were ranking people. And did you also know those "temperament-tests"? I read through them several times and you clearly could see, that there were certain temperaments that were favoured (as you said: extroverted and efficient). Even a consa from Rome, who had studied psychology didn´t like it. I felt horrible, when we gave this test to teenager-girls and how bad some of them felt when they got the result of a "bad" temperament. They changed the tests now, but I am sure they are still not appropriate.

Thank you for reminding me of that. I´ve almost forgotten how terrible I felt sometimes, cause I didn´t fit in totally. It was actually one of the things that didn´t allow me to grow spiritually.
Gosh I feel angry now.

PS: the worst thing I ever heard was of a RC-senior-lady and mother of one of our consas. Shetold us how she had met this girl and that she was such "good vocational material". Gosh...even at that time I got sick cause of that statement...

"And you're positive that absolutely NOTHING has changed re: the true intents of the schools?"

I really don't know, white tree. That would be a matter to discuss with people more knowledgeable of your particular school. All I know is that if they are sending LCs there, and 3gfs, then they want vocations to R/L from it.

Regarding vocations to the Legion as opposed to vocations to Regnum, both are important to the Legion. Without the thousands of Regnum members, the Legion wouldn't be where it is today.

I know you're right SO DONE. Yes, there are LCs and 3gfs, Challenge, Conquest, the works. I know in my heart that it is what it is. It's just that when one is too close to it, it's easy not to see it for what it is. Even after all this time, I still catch myself thinking, "What if it is a little different now?" Would it change my opinion of the school? No. It's just that they're so darned good at making the lunacy seem mainstream.

White Tree,

I know what you mean. Last year, before we took our children out of the school, even though I KNEW this was all a big scam started by a child molester, there was still a little voice in me that kept niggling that perhaps it wasn't as bad as it seemed, and maybe I was taking kids out of a good environment.

I'm not even RC! Nor ever have been!

It's amazing how deeply ingrained the appearance of "holy priests" was to me. Now I'm way over that. I don't trust anybody who seems "holy", not in the sense of looking holy and encouraging others to think they are holy, anyway.

Anybody truly holy doesn't allow anybody to call them so, because they are humble enough to recognize their own defects and to know that any holiness they have comes from God anyway. Plus "real" holy people are smart enough to know that flattery can be really detrimental to the soul and eschew it accordingly. A holy person knows their own human weakness well enough to not want the risk of getting inflated by flattery.

The legion, on the other hand, thrives on flattery---both of themselves of and of people who can be of use to them

It's sick and twisted and has ruined the words "holy" and "pious" for me forever more.


They sure do put on a good show!

I went to a LC Mass a little while ago, and the priests were so nice and amiable. And they tell all the right stories, and they are so good at name dropping all the right names. It's not hard to get sucked in, or simply ignore the facts b/c you want them so badly to be real!!

In our section, people were assigned to either a SD (priest) or Spiritual Guide (2nd degree, laywoman). It fostered a sense of jealousy. Why does so & so get to see a priest every month, and other people can't?

People going to SD/SG also were given time slots of 30 minutes or an hour. That also fostered jealousy.

I'm still thinking about what Devo (and others said) about the "good" things that LC/RC produced. I asked for a list & he didn't provide it. Last year on AMP I asked someone else for a list of the good things & no one gave one.

It's a puzzle that so many people can come up with specific examples of the bad things, but no one can give a simple list of any of the good things.

TEIN,

I feel the same way about the words "pious" and "holy" (and "good"). Now those words immediately make me suspicious.

I had a lay SD that fit the description given by the consecrated quoted above perfectly. This SD thrives on flattery and thinks is the embodiment of holiness and charity. Yet is deadly with advice.

Now that we believe Our children, they tell us they were taken from classroom time to be given SD (supposedly) when they were asked about intimate family life/matters that was not their business.

This happenned in Challenge groups too. Children were encouraged to discuss intimate matters and family matters with a spiritual guide, Regnum Christi member who is parishoner at the parish who had her own formation problems, imaturity compounded with those produced by Regnum Christi. This woman, ( and several like her ) had no right to do this and was completely out of her realm. The information can be used to stigmatize, infer things, etc ... It is all done so intimately and the child does not know what is happenening and may never be able to verbalize it. Later if they have problems with the faith, they may not be able to relate it to what happened. They will know that something wasn't right and they may blame Catholic faith instead of the experience they had. The experience will not be straightforward. Head games never are and neither is the dynamic -other things are arranged by those in charge. These spiritual guides can affect the family's life outside of the Movement or school because they are women of the community, and parishes who can spread things way beyond the Movement. Can you imagine the effect on a person. Their whole world is altered. You have some families and esp kids who have experienced this and never knew what hit them. They are just kind of bewildered. They are good at not leaving tracks.

I wrote "this woman had no right to do this". An important point is that these women believe that if a consecrated woman of Regnum Christi tels them to do or not do something, it is the voice of God because they are being obedient and the consecrated woman has "grace of state". Therefore if thse laywoman, mothers and housewives obey the consecrated woman, they are on the road to perfection even if it doesn't make sense or they initially have a twinge of conscience. I have seen this happen several times and had it explained to me by one of the leaders.
In my experience these consecrated women have shown very much imaturity.

TEIN and Anon: You mentioned that they have tainted the words holy and pious. Yes, they have tainted many many beautiful ( even that word they over use ) things of the faith including prayers. Many of the gatherings at church we no longer feel comfortable going. This effect shows that something is terribly wrong - I feel like those things , everything is being taken under the wing of Regnum Christi where they own it - not the Church and Christ. It seems this is the initiative. My point is that this sense of tainting and ruining is also experienced by kids , teens and others who do not know that it was the movement that did it, and so they struggle and are in danger of losing their faith. Please Regnum Christi members and LC, realize the souls that your Movement has caused to suffer the loss of the faith thus putting their salvation at stake. You brag about your numbers of souls, but God is looking for the ones whom you've contributed to lost. You must not try to be God.

Another aspect of SD is that the 3gfs often aren't ready to hear what they hear. One time I was talking to a girl in SD and she told me some things and it was obvious she needed professional help. I told my directress this and her response: Yeah, they lie to get attention.

I don't know whatever happened to that girl as I was kicked out soon after, but I often wonder.

Need I repeat? These women aren't consecrated. There is no grace of state because they are as lay as the one they are directing.

Correct, Giselle, but that's not the line we were fed. We were also told as 3gf that if we were to get SD from a 1st degree Regnum member who was incorporated 2 weeks ago, that SD would be valid b/c if our superior assigned her to us, then she would have the "grace of state."

The point was that it didn't matter who your SD was, or if you liked her, or if it was a priest or not, we had to listen to them and take what they say as if it were coming from God himself.

And we thought this was Catholic teaching.

On the words "holy", "pious", "good", "beautiful", etc. -- and thinking about...abbreviating the group's titles... (l/r, etc.).

Maybe this is what would be happening to "Christ" by being attached to this group -- the name would be devalued because of its association with the group.

Love Christ Wrote: "It is all done so intimately and the child does not know what is happenening and may never be able to verbalize it. Later if they have problems with the faith, they may not be able to relate it to what happened. They will know that something wasn't right and they may blame Catholic faith instead of the experience they had. "

The above is so true and so cruel. It does a lot of harm to family. Divides the kids because they experience different things - one may be chosen because of having the right personality, the other rejected because of being outspoken and independent, etc. etc.

There are numbers of kids who have left the faith because of the LC/RC work on their minds and hearts. I pray for these SD's because they have scandalized the little ones.

Re: SD at RC schools with children without parental notification or consdent.

This happened at our school and generated complaints from parents (non-RC parents, by the by--the RC parents were just fine with ilt, thankyouverymuch). In response, I set in place a policy (in my position as principal, I had the authority) that required all visits by consecrated to happen on a regular monthly basis and to appear in the school calendar. In addition, we formulated a written consent form that had to be sent home and signed in order for the consecrated to meet with any child in the school. If the form was not signed, there was no visit with the child.

The immediate effect was thta parents uncomfortable with the practice could opt out for their children and the consecrated all of a sudden had far fewer kids to talk with.

This, of course, was probably one of the things that figured into the beginning of the end of my tenure as principal . . . .

Part of the problem is that one would trust that the consecrated women or priests are people with the utmost integrity, but it becomes clear that they just don't have the proper formation to to SD. Even if they were to gain skills, the core is malformed and considering their relationship to the families and utilitarianism, and all the other abuses we have discussed, even a certificate or degree in SD would not make them suitable.

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