This is difficult to follow, but wanted you to begin to digest this portion of a two-hour conversation that took place between Fr Luis Garza and some "consecrated" women (not sure how many). It was transcribed on Trastevere and has just been translated. UPDATE: Commenter says it was September, 2009.
MM had a very unstructured sexuality. [He had] a relationship for more than 30 years. A constant relationship (weekends, summers, Christmases). A relationship with another woman, there are two more children. These families knew each other. MM had sexual relations with minors throughout the entire life of the Legion (from the 40s until the end). We don’t have every certainty about every act, but there is proof and testimonies from LCs who say that what happened in the 40s and 50s was true (we found that out this year). Also there are testimonies from the 70s. This is not a normal sexuality. MM used means to cover the needs of these families. This is the foundation of the matter. It is a continuous situation throughout all of MM’s life as founder. Is a valid charisma given through someone like that? I can’t answer that theologically. Either he was completely crazy or completely perverted, or a mix of both. The charisma is doubtful. As Christians we have a guide through the grace of discernment: the Holy See. It is not an eternal validation, the Pope could annul us when he wants. [Like] the history of the Jesuits. Dissolution was not decreed, and other facts. [?] Today we have the approbation of our charisma. There is another criteria, and that is whether the charisma produces holiness or not. We also have great holiness in many of our members. This type of thing is not strange in the history of salvation. I think that we have to review things. That’s why we have the [general] chapters. What is crystallized is the central essence of the charisma, but the normative and the discipline can change. Rules about family visits, apostolic work,… The norms [rules] adapt to reality.
We should review things to see if we will change them. We shouldn’t let doubt eat away at us. We will go through the appropriate channels. We won’t be mad, or have rancour or rage. We have to be very charitable in this situation. We can’t dwell on “poor MM” [I am unsure of this - I think it means we have to forget about him.] The first thing we have to do is repay the damage he did, the actual [objective] harm he caused. We are talking about people who have suffered a great deal because of this situation. We have to fix it. It is supposed we are very devoted to the Sacred Heart, because of that we have to make a lot of reparation. It is part of our history and it is up to us to atone [make amends?] for it.
1. Was it known? Was there a cover up?
It is up to us to clean the name of the Legion. There are ways of not knowing about the personal life of someone. In Maciel’s case he was beyond evil and goodness [in our eyes]. We were with a sick person. You can tell when someone has an unstructured sexuality. Maciel wasn’t like that. There wasn’t any hint of it. Perhaps he was a psychopath. Add that to the idealising that there was. And then add his great skills (there were three or four people who saw parts of the whole picture). For example Fr. Felipe Castro (MM’s personal secretary), or Fr. Juan Solana when he went to buy woman’s clothes with Maciel, MM was injecting us to take precautions with us.
The victims didn’t resist him [?] because of a mix of respect, fear and “subjugation.” There is an example of a priest that spoke with Fr. Luis Garza. There are three priests that have told us that they knew about those from the 40s. Fr. Alfredo Torres said it during a meal. Such naivety made us idealists.
We have to develop a healthy critical capacity. We have documents from MM (letters to his children), signed by a “Raul.” More stories might turn up. The son’s and Bonilla’s strategy now is to cause upset in the press. This may happen again. More news may appear.
2. The Pope wants to correct the defect in the Legion (how we idealised MM and the superiors in general). MM got angry when he was told [off?] about things. How money systems went…
3. Did the Holy See know something?
The Holy See never communicates the accusations it receives. In 1998 it received accusations and in 2004 it began the investigation on behalf of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. John Paul II didn’t know. Some LC must have said something to the Holy See, and I think that was the detonator. The investigation began with the belief that MM would remain faultless and that the case would be closed, but they found out that that was not the case. MM always said that there was nothing in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith [?], he didn’t allow the first LC’s to be interviewed.
4.Certainly MM knew what he was doing. A critical revision of the history [of the Legion?] will have to be made.
5. Distinguishing the spirituality from the writings of the founder. We have to make a compendium of spirituality. Now we have to do it picking out the vital principles and motivations [of the Legion]. There are some strong aspects in MM’s writings. It’s not like we are inventing doctrine. We can say “when I contemplate the world…”, from that we have to get the principles of our spirituality. We don’t have to burn letters. We can’t propose them as doctrine, that would be to place MM as a model. But these are inconclusive areas we still have to work on.
6. In principle, the Holy See will not make a visitation to the Consecrated.
7. How can we trust this group of co-founders who are going to revise all that we were told by the founder?
We have to look to the Holy Spirit. God will act through those who he wants to.
8. MM was conscious of being a founder. But he also had a dark side to his psychology… “I sincerely believe that I had an inspiration from God.” I’m not an expert about multiple personalities. There will always be doubts about whether there was an illness as such. Normally these people [people with a split personality? ] aren’t conscious about what their other personalities do. Yes he had two personalities. I don’t know if that is an illness, but yes they were two people.
9. It is not easy for a Doctor to give an answer. It isn’t easy.
10. He stopped being the Director General because it was his decision.
11. Maciel’s family doesn’t seem to have seen things. Javier Maciel yes saw “strange things.” Maurita was very upset when she found out.
12. The Holy See will help us make the bridge we need to cross this river. Have faith in the Holy See. We shouldn’t base our security of having works, institutions,… more humility, a sense of reparation. It will be hard and demanding. Hopefully the Holy See will do it quickly. I know that the Holy See wants to finish in December. It will be the Holy See. I think that a pruning of this type is useful. God has a plan, I hope we are up to it.
13. What have you done to be more trustful of God? It is easy to lose confidence among mankind. There are many good men, but we are aware of the weakness of humanity. Again, if we turn to idealising people we will make mistakes (not even Fr. Alvaro nor Fr. Luis,…). A man who is a complete supernaturalist while end up a failure.
14. About the MM’s conscience being a priest…? We don’t know when the problems began. MM knew he was a priest, but he lost his fervour gradually. He didn’t celebrate in the last years… It was a hyper-complex psychology.
15. We will edit his writings under another name? That is what we are doing. The ideas about formation are his, they are used in seminaries and all over the place. The reality is that we are here because many have been faithful. But throughout this mess I have carried a weight: I noticed a radical change in the last years; after the chapter I feared more; and when we knew everything it was hard. Keeping myself busy helped me. And then everything about making it known, it wasn’t easy… It is sad to know that you have been used and manipulated. What has helped me most was see that there are many people in the Legion and RC who live this charisma with illusion, purity of intention…
16. Thanks for being so clear. Could we have known about this before?
I don’t see why not. For me the obligation of coherency was to not have him as a life model. It was Fr. Alvaro’s decision to say the minimum. I told Fr. Alvaro that it was better to say it before rather than after the press would. It is hard to think that the action we took was wrong.
17. We are not told everything. We need to know that to reflect on our institution and on our own truth. It is necessary that we all should know the truth. (this is where the intervention by the consecrated woman ends).
P. Luis: I came to that conclusion later on.
18. Was the fire provoked?
No it was an accident.
Did you feel the presence of the devil?
The atmosphere yes was tense… The lady doesn’t want to speak.
19. MM died a natural death. He wanted some ice cream, he asked for it, was given it, it caused him [?] to crash, he fell into a coma, his cardiovascular system… Fr. Alvaro confessed him when he was in a coma. He didn’t ask for a confession. I asked the lady to tell him to confess himself, but he never did.
20. Don’t you just want to give up?
Yes I makes me want to give up the government after the visit and after the chapter. It has been a lot of years.
21. Who will choose the chapter fathers? This requires a greater [wider] participation.
22. When the Pope speaks we will have to unite ourselves to him with all our heart, with a critical sense… Together we will try to resolve the problems. Until them… [have] a lot of trust.
23. We have to write in two pages the charisma of the LC and the RC. We have to separate the spiritual life from the apostolic life.
24. How do we define the movement? Know, live and give love… that is what Fr. Alvaro said. In reality we have to look at that in the chapter. Fr. Alvaro doesn’t have the proper authority to say that.
25. Will the consecrated take part in the chapter?
We will have to see.