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When was this conference held? Are we sure this is from Fr. Luis? This is truely amazing and awesome if this really came from Fr. Luis.

Wow. this says all that needs to be said (except that he and the auditors are still both in a bubble of illusion).

And I am beyond mystified that "in principle" Regnum Christi is not investigated or visited. Gee, is it that they want to keep their happy little slave girls?

Is the Spanish available? I looked on El Trastevere Blog and it wasn't there.

Seems some of the realities of the situation are being acknowledged and this is very good to see. But there is still a lot of denial and abdication of responsibility in this conversation though.

My initial thoughts are that this conversation should have happened many years ago and LC/RC worked through solving their own problems without waiting for the Holy Father to be forced to step in.

"It was Fr. Alvaro’s decision to say the minimum. I told Fr. Alvaro that it was better to say it before rather than after the press would."

Is Garza throwing Alvaro under the bus?

So Done, look up post:

Bona // Mar 19, 2010 at 2:33

Les paso un resumen de la famosa platica de LGM en septiembre de 2009 en TEotepec.

It's a summary of a two hour long talk, that Luis Garza gave to a group of consecrated in Sep. 2009 in Teotepec.
Patricio Cerda said he would put it on You-tube hopefully soon.

Is this from unsourced comments? blog posts? If it's sourced enough to print, and the legion doesn't deny it the civil war begins.

If that's Garza about 99% of what he said and about 99% of the constitutions call for his immediate dismissal.

The recurring theme is the pruning imagery:

The leadership should be pruned (except for him).

The writings can be pruned (especially by him).

Re: separating the spiritual life from the apostolic life (#23). "integrating" the two IS the charism, spirit, norms, writings, methodology, constitutions etc. SHUT.IT.DOWN.


#1 they have letters by Raul and they are silent about it? shut em down.

#12, #16 not planning to be pruned himself.

#5, #15 keeping the letters is delusional. anyone who thinks they can needs to be pruned.

#7. you can trust co-founders because you trust the holy spirit. they're reusing that line? (#13 repudiates #7)

#8. straight from a MST3K b-movie. nice try.

if video goes up on youtube it would be worth translating word by word.

Basta said: "It's a summary of a two hour long talk, that Luis Garza gave to a group of consecrated in Sep. 2009 in Teotepec."

So six to seven months ago?

pete vere in sept 2009:

Will Fr. Garza to be thrown under the bus?

"10. He stopped being the Director General because it was his decision."

isn't this the lie in the 2006 Communique?

With regards to this talk by LG- it was recorded and is being passed on to those on "Trastevere" who ask for it, by 'intrepid. It's all very secretive and it seems to have been LG's initiative to speak to "some" Consecrated. Many LC's and Consecrated are still totally in the dark.
I have copied and pasted a post of "filosofo", a LC who is part of the "resistance". He posted several times yesterday and seems desperate, because he fears that the Pope will write a letter like his Pastoral letter to the Irish, which would be like a slap on the wrist with no concrete measures to actually change or reform the LC.
Filosofo // Mar 20, 2010 at 16:15

Si hable con el visitador, no se si realmente el Papa va a ser serio y duro con esta situación. Lo mas probable es que nos diga: durante un ano reparen y hagan mucha oración, recen el vía crucis todos los días y a ser buenos. Tres consejos como a los pederastas irlandeses, sin un castigo real. Así puede ser con nosotros, y al final, los malos somos los que hemos hablado y visto el trastevere, por lo que tendremos que salir de la Legión. Hay muchos cómplices y cabezas deformadas: Corcuera, Garza, Evaristo, Segura, Nader, Clancy, Garcia de Alvear, Nunez, Delgado, Cardenas, Sotres, Richard, De la Garza, Mateos, Coates, Blazquez, Acevedo, Florencio, Guerra, Esquivel, Duenas, Emilio, etc. Gente educada como el régimen comunista, gestapo, listos para romper psicológicamente a quien haga falta y no este de acuerdo con este negocio o empresa, cero salvación de las almas, es gente realmente perversa, mentirosa e hipócrita, han traicionado su sacerdocio y la Iglesia por defender a Maciel y conservar este régimen de miedo y manipulación de conciencias. Nina han dicho nada de los cómplices y amigos cercanos de Maciel: Devlin, Moreno, Skerchely, Jesus Sánchez, Nivardo, Felipe Castro, Cristiforo, Etc. Todo esto lo comentamos los filósofos a escondidas, nos sentimos muy mal, pues nos han hecho hacer unos votos secretos en el pasado que nos han roto la conciencia y la libertad, nos cuesta salir de este cascaron. AUXILIO
He is asking for HELP. He describes the situation he and his buddy (philosphers- those who are searching for the "truth") are being ostracized and he names many priests, who the "philosophers" feel are like the Gestapo or the KGB- he mentions this in another post- that they are living like in a "Gulag" and are being constantly watched. He says these priests are traitors and are capable of doing whatever it takes in order to save face and maintain their positions of power. He says that he and his friends have had their consciences "deformed" by the vows of secrecy and it is very difficult for them to break out of their "shell".
The responses to this post from other legionaries is divided- some want him to hang on and have faith. One guy describes those who persevere in the Legion as being the ones "with dignity". like the orchestra in the Titanic, that went down "playing" and only one or two bloggers have told him to get "Out asap". A lot of the Exlegionaries still have a sense of "loyalty", which I really don't understand. This poor guy- if I were his mom- I think I'd have hired the Mossad to kidnap him.

"he fears that the Pope will write a letter like his Pastoral letter to the Irish"

the irish letter announced a visitation. the legion has had a visitation.


Please forward this message to any resister or philosopher on the inside:

- Pope Benedict will get to the bottom of this. Pray to the Holy Spirit, St. Joseph and St. Benedict for our Holy Father.

- Make friends with the monastics closest to you (Benedictines, Trappists, Cistercians, Carthusians). Be prepared to flee to the monastery if resistance becomes too difficult or you are discovered. The monastics will look after you and God will speak to you through them.

- If possible, find a Jesuit spiritual director.

15. "We will edit his writings under another name? That is what we are doing. The ideas about formation are his, they are used in seminaries and all over the place."


He's in Rome, so he's close to the Vatican, but that's the problem- he doesn't know whom to trust.
I wish you would write on Trastevere more often. You're highly respected on that blog.
Unfortunately all he can do is pray, because his every move is being watched and he's very scared. It's so sad. Maybe we could all of us, adopt one of these "philosophers" and add them to our prayer lists.
By the way yesterday he made an emotional plea, asking the bloggers to send e-mails to the LC superiors with excerpts from the blogs.

Thanks Basta!, I'm heading over there right now.

Dear friends I translated this text which I read on the comments on the exlcblog here (quoting "Bona" on the spanish el trastevere blog).

It was a hard text to translate - it was conversational and perhaps more colloquial.

There are probably errors in my translation so please pick it apart.

When Garza says that Maciel stepped down of his own accord, it reads to me in spanish that Garza was disappointed and that it felt like Maciel was turning his back on them - like he had made his bed and was deciding to lie in it, erm so to speak.

Reading this text made me feel a little less critical of Luis Garza - it showed some humility and honesty. But that is my opinion and I read that from the original spanish, not so much from the dry translation I made.

I confirm the date supplied is September 2009, the original source is a low quality audio recording lasting just over two hours long.

The poster on trastever - Bona is supposedly still an LC priest. That may need verification.

Please feel free to analyse, question and correct the nuances of my translation.

"There is another criteria, and that is whether the charisma produces holiness or not. We also have great holiness in many of our members."
Many may be well intentioned, sacrificial, and God loving members who may appear very holy, but under the system and formation of use, but most likely will be missing something which is not always easily evident ...
True charity would not look for members who it could prove holy in order to justify itself. That again is an example of use.
They may really want to produce a Saint from among them for the sake of their system. This is not the normal motivation of charity. It is not necessarily their fault, it may just be the way they think now.

"15. We will edit his writings under another name? That is what we are doing. The ideas about formation are his, they are used in seminaries and all over the place."

Forgive me if I falter a bit at this point. Obviously my meagre degree in theology is no match for the intellectual formation of the LC's but I do find I have a little bit of a problem with this point - perhaps one of our friendly RC/LC lurkers will be able to cast some light on my darkness here. But I simply can not reconcile knowing that the man was a pedophile, manipulator, liar and more right from the very beginning of the foundation yet still keeping his writings (albeit under a different name) and using them to form priests. I just don't get it.

Perhaps I am being too simplistic here, after all he was a complex individual, but it seems to me that someone as far from Christ as he obviously was has no business influencing the formation of Catholic priests. Surely somewhere in the two millenia of Catholic history we can find one or two individuals who have scraped together a few ideas that could be used instead of this twisted and malignant individual's?

(tones of sarcasm fully intended)

Thanks Aaron. Does his relative Maurita in this case refer to Mama Maurita? If so, what does LG mean when he mentions her disappointment with Maciel?

Any Legionary priests or seminarians who want to leave the Legion and need a place to go to find help can walk or take a cab to any of these places to find help and shelter.

(If they need to take a cab, they can ask someone at the destination to pay for it. This is no time for misplaced pride. The Holy Spirit will find someone to pay the taxi man):

The Missionary of Charity Fathers have a place in Rome--they can be trusted:
Fr. Sebastian, General Father
Contemplative Brothers
00177 ROMA – ITALY

The Jesuits can be found during the day at the Gregorian:
Piazza della Pilotta, 4

The Dominicans can be found during the day at the Angelicum:
Largo Angelicum, 1
00184 Roma, Italia

The Opus Dei Priests can be found during the day at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross:
Piazza di Sant'Apollinare, 49

The American diocesan seminarians are at the North American College:
Via del Gianicolo, 14

The American diocesan priests who study in Rome live at the:
Casa Santa Maria
Via dell’Umilta, 30
00187 Rome, Italy
TEL 06/6900.1821

The American priests who work at the Vatican live in the:
Villa Stritch:
Via della Nocetta 63,
00164 Rome, Italy

sympathy is one thing, but anyone who was #2 and in line for #1, is positioning himself for the chapter, and is re-cycling MM's writings needs to be retired along with the rest of the leadership.

Pete, Maurita is MM's little sister that lives with the consecrated. She is a widow with children. She has been living with the consecrated a number of years as a consecrated without the strict rules.

Anonymous | March 21, 2010 at 09:49 PM
I copied and pasted your post on the Trastevere blog.
Thank you very much for this information.
One of the bloggers, Spartaccus, who seems to be an exlc posted the other day that MM was not at his mother's funeral and that he waited 8 days to go to Cotija and visit the family.

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