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This just in:

Legion friend & supporter Carlos Slim makes it to # 1 on Forbes' 2010 Billionaire List.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/10/worlds-richest-people-slim-gates-buffett-billionaires-2010_land.html

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/secretive-catholic-order-founded-by-accused-pedophile-under-fire/19398262

This article says that the visitators reports are to be handed in tomorrow monday.

This article confirms that Maciel was punished for sexual abuse:

http://exlcblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/scicluna-headed-up-investigation-of.html

"In sixty percent of cases there has been no trial, above all because of the advanced age of the accused, but administrative and disciplinary provisions have been issued against them, such as the obligation not to celebrate Mass with the faithful, not to hear confession, and to live a retired life of prayer. It must be made absolutely clear that in these cases, some of which are particularly sensational and have caught the attention of the media, no absolution has taken place. It's true that there has been no formal condemnation, but if a person is obliged to a life of silence and prayer, then there must be a reason..."
(Mons. Charles Scicluna)

Your dear critic would be better off connecting dots than thinking with exclamation points.

"They are spiritual seducers," said another former Regnum Christi member. "They are the only priests I've seen who have swept people off their feet. These men woo women because they want access to our children and our husbands' wallets."
Ah, but worse part comes afterward when the woman or man is discarded, denagraded and blamed. The wrongs are never admitted.
Will they apologize for this and other hallmarks of the Movement which continue which continue in various forms?

It seems like what is happening now is a last ditch effort. They will condemn Maciel and the inner circle which covered up and apologize. They will see themselves as victims too. But - they continue to deny that the victimizing continues by their loyalties to a system which continues to use and mistreat people. They just want to move on and in the same breath as the apology, they continue the cruelty.
Let us pray for the day when each one who perpetuated the system turns back to the Father. We will we run to meet each one with Him whence they leave the house of cards and come home in sincerity.

A biblical scholar once told me that while the Prodigal son was away, he not only went into the land of pigs, he desired the food of the swine. The *desiring* of the pig's food showed that the disorder had entered his heart.
I think for those who are not bound by canononical vows that still cling to the Movement,or desperately desire its continuation in any form, no matter their expressed apology for their founder's deeds and coverup, still have the disorder in their heart.
They are not truly free.

Let us pray they will open their hearts in order to run in the way of His commands.

That time for prayer your article was robbing her of? Why it was nobly used correcting sinners.

The Psalmist (141:1) had nothing on your dear helper:

"Let my prayer rise before you as exclamation points, the pointing of my finger as the evening sacrifice"

You People have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It amazes what an easy victory you give to the father of lies (and for those who are uneducated as most of you seem to be) this means the DEVIL. I am not RC but without the fruits from this movement (aka: individuals who have been a martyr unto themselves and who have lived fully and truly) I would NOT KNOW GOD AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITH. You fail to remember that GOD BRINGS GOOD OUT OF ALL THINGS even the MOST horrid sins! There ARE individuals who have participated in the movement and still do including some Legionaries and Regnum Christi Women who are TRULY SAINTS and what is SO remarkable is that they are not "BRAINWASHED” and live authentically as human beings who are filled with the sweet love of Jesus Christ. If any of you truly proclaim yourselves Catholic I would consider taking in all realms, every aspect including the fact that it has brought people to Jesus Christ and this should be your ultimate goal: to preach the GOOD NEWS and not commit slander and calumny as the blog is perpetuating. I will continue to pray for all those who are apart of such treachery and hope that you can come to see the truth of good, evil, and above ALL God's desire to bring good and truth upon this earth so that the human race, all the souls that he loves so dearly, can come closer to him and experience HIS LOVE IN FULLNESS.

"You People have absolutely no idea what you are talking about."

All the fruits are from Christ. All that need to be pruned is from the Father of lies.

And there is a lot to be pruned. Aside from the impenitence and the failure to name the sins or make amends for them, there is a warped spiritual understanding those who are pushing those loving hearts.

You can't give what you don't have. Let's start by acknowledging the serious issues that Fr. Berg (who certainly was in the know and did respect the good fruits)
listed:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1339296?eng=y

...inability to see and honestly recognize the flaws and errors that so many people outside the Legion are able to see.

...an unhealthy suppression of personal freedom (which is a far cry from the reasoned, discerned and freely exercised oblation of mind and will that the Holy Spirit genuinely inspires in the institution of religious obedience) and occasions unholy and unhealthy restrictions on personal conscience.

...a simplistic, and humanly and theologically impoverished notion of God's will (its discernment and manifestation) that breeds personal immaturity.

...the negative personality change which many, if not most, Legionaries undergo over time: the shallowness of their emotional expression, the lack of empathy and inability to relate normally to others in so many contexts, the general sense of their being "out of touch," etc.

...systematically deprived of the kind of information they not only have a right to know but a fundamental need to know: a complete presentation of the basic facts of Fr. Maciel's double life

...largely unaware of most of these things, shielded as they are from virtually all negative information about the Legion and Regnum Christi. Consequently, they lack the requisite interior freedom to genuinely discern God's calling in their lives at present.

...It would be a very honest gesture for the Legion of Christ to simply call a halt to all vocational work at least for the duration of the canonical visitation, and even better until it finally gets its house in order.

Sadly we do know what we are talking about.

How many have lost their faith because of the Legion of Christ?

How many families divided?

How many lives shattered?

How many children and young adults abused by different Legionary priests because they learnt it in the Legion and because the Legion is an institute DESIGNED FROM ITS FOUNDATION to manipulate, take advantage, use and abuse the innocent and good hearted people that enter it.

Each and every person who enters the Legion and RC are men and women with generous hearts of gold - good people.

Yet they are duped and yes are victims, but they perpetuate the evil if they do not see that the wrongs of the Legion are not some wayward occasional acts committed by the founder: it is an institute designed for evil and I truly regret the day I met it.

Giselle and Aaron:

http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/2010/03/apology-to-maci.html

Speaking the Truth @ 2:58 pm:

Glad to know that you have found your way to a relationship with Christ and the fullness of the Catholic faith.

Would you be willing to stick around here to dialogue? Seriously, no sarcasm meant or intended.

Neither of us wants to be snookered by the father of lies. Let's talk this through and use the established principles and tenants our Catholic faith to sort out exactly what "fruits" (your term) the legion or regnum have produced.

I can only speak for myself, but I believe your brothers and sisters in Christ on this board would welcome the opportunity to engage in a civil exchange with you on this.

Hope you will come back.

God might bring some good out of this evil, but how much more good could have come if all these individuals had not been exposed to this evil founder, his corrupt organisation and its tainted rotton fruits?

Jesus wept.

"...for those who are uneducated as most of you seem to be"

Regular posters on this blog include at least one canon lawyer, a prominent Catholic author, and a number of highly educated individuals many of who are likewise converts to Catholicism. I myself have a tertiary degree in Theology and was a 2nd degree member of the Movement for 10 years.

Speaking the Truth @ 2:58 pm, I echo Frank's invitation to stick around and have a chat about the contents of this blog.

@2DO@2:58PM
Most of what I have written has come from personal observation. It amazes me still that these same odd things are experienced throughtout the world in connection with Regnum Christi and LC. Never had I experienced these things but in connection to this Movement. I have known other groups and Movements both Catholic and secular.
It is unkind to call names of those who are trying to explain the workings of a very convoluted group which uses some very good people and our faith. I am sorry for the pain and confusion you are feeling.

Actually, I'm encouraged by SPEAKINGTHE...'s comment and the recent explosion of similar reactions to people still defending the movement. It shows deep cracks in the "serenity" typical of LC/RC responses up until now. Emotions - suppressed for so long out of obedience to the movement's leaders - are now coming out. Of course their expression will be raw as people come to grips with how they feel about the situation.

It's no different than the last two waves of exodus from the movement. First in 2006 when the Holy See invited Maciel to retire to a life of prayer and penance. And second, a year ago when news surfaced of Maciel's daughter.

The most recent allegations that Maciel abused (and photographed the abuse of) his own son, a mere child at the time of the alleged abuse, and the confirmation from Maciel's prosecutor that the invitation to retire was indeed punishment, are not something normal people can remain serene about after having invested themselves - spiritually, financially, emotionally - into a movement. Especially if they have also invested their family members, in particular their children, in the same movement.

And with the Holy See taking its time with the AV, I am told by friends on the inside that even more pressure is mounting as members feel uncertain about the movement's future, which impacts their future. So none of us should be surprised by drive-by expressions of extreme emotion.

It's how many felt in 2006 before leaving the movement, or beginning to question it. The same was true in January of last year, when news of Maciel's daughter was made known.

The same is true with incest allegations because these are the allegations that link Maciel's fathering of a child to the earlier allegations of minor seminarians that Maciel molested them. (On top of the horror of molesting his own son and pimping it for the camera.)

Pray for those damaged souls who are just beginning the third exodus. Pray to St. Bruno, and to St. Michael, and to the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph. Beg Our Lord to forgive them for the blasphemes perpetuated by the movement in His name.

Jim Fair sadly still hasn't begun to wrestle with the charism issue.

It's NOT as if Abraham Lincoln were discovered to have been a pedophile. Nobody participates in a charism that is supposedly expressed in the life, works and words or Abraham Lincoln. Nobody has Abraham Lincoln as the permanent source of renewal of their organization.

The LC Kool Aid crowd continues to pretend that although Maciel did lots of horrible things, his "good" works survive unaffected by that. But the man founded a religious order, and that simply isn't the way a religious charism works.

There is a reason why nearly every congregation in the Church has a canonized saint as its founder, and why no institution in the Church has ever survived with a founder as depraved as Maciel. Every member of LC/RC, including the many who are personally blameless and genuinely filled with goodwill, has associated himself intrinsically with the character of Marcial Maciel. That makes the radical Gospel witness of religious life literally impossible.

This thing cannot go on.

I have a real problem with "God brings good out of the most horrid evil" or "God writes straight with crooked lines".

These have become justifications for continuing the way everybody has been and stifle justified outrage.

So, now we stop doing something against evil because "good can come out of it" or "because God always writes straight with crooked lines"?
Is that it?
Why should we then fight for the unborn or the elderly? Why should we be outraged at partially born babies whose brains are being sucked out? Why should we be outraged at the elderly or disabled who are being starved to death? Why should we be outraged about Catholic Christian girls in Muslim countries who are systematically abused and mutilated? Why should we be outraged at young men being abused by their spiritual father? Why should we be outraged at the politician who claims that aborting human beings is actually cheaper than carrying them to term? Why should we be outraged at the Nazis contemplating the Final Solution?

Hey, let's save all this energy because "good can come out of the most horrid evil" and "God writes straight with crooked lines".

SPEAKINGTHETRUTH --- would you please have the courage to tell this to the victims? Suck it up already, because "God will write straight with crooked lines".

Mum26...brilliant !!

"God writes straight with crooked lines". What does this mean? That even though terrible sins are committed, God will defeat Satan at the Last Judgement? Yes, and at that time, those who spent their lives making crooked lines (my mental image is of those squiggles that SNAKES make in the dirt when they travel) will be thrown into the unquenchable fire; I wouldn't recommend using it as an excuse for one's bad behavior.
The most common example given is the Holocaust. For Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, Saint Maximilian Kolbe, and many others, being murdered by Nazis, martyrdom, was their path to heaven. That doesn't mean that their tormentors, their murderers, get special graces for being the vehicle through which the martyrs won heaven.

Speaking the Truth - I received tons of fruits in my time in RC and was actually helped by my SD through a few of the hardest times in my life. I will be forever grateful to God and to the loving LC priest for those gifts that he gave me.

I did at first feel bound to the RC Movement and the LC priest in gratitidue but the Lord showed me in prayer that gratitude does not equal blind loyalty to a group or a priest. RC methodology and the LC hierarchy's actions became an obstacle for me and the Lord asked me to leave and choose only Him over all other attachments that I had and it was very painful. God also showed me that He provided a priest of the Church (not just an LC) for me just when I needed one.

Those were real gifts for me but I do not use them to justify the existence or continuation of the LC/RC or to trump the pain that so many others have experienced.

The confusion starts when the real fruit (a conversion to the Church as stated above) is attributed to the existence of an organization founded by a fraud (which hurt so many others) instead of to the grace of God working in the Church. It is almost like saying - because I was converted, it does not matter that you were sexually abused by the same organization.

God is greater than the organization and took the pure intentions of thousands of priests and lay and provided countless gifts despite Maciel's life of lies.

I also know that if Maciel's lies were not covered up for all these years (which would have stopped some of the abuse) and the LC/RC was not around for me when I needed help, the Lord would have never abandoned me. I was searching for Him and he would have provided a way to show His love and comfort to me when I needed it. I trust Him to give me what I need when I need it. There is no sense going backward but only forward making our future choices on the facts that we now know and always continuing to love. It might be hard for you to understand but beneath all the pain and anger on this blog are those who are seeking the truth and showing love (even though it is painful). I may or may not agree with all that is said or how it is said here but I know the only way to the other side of this is to look the truth in the eye and keep loving. God will always be faithful even though at times we are not.

My prayer is that the truth all come out and Maciel be renounced as founder, the true victims be taken care of by our love, prayers and restitution for their needs and we all surrender to the will of God as to what He chooses to do with each of us individually to continue to serve Him and His church in freedom and love. I don't know what that means for the LC/RC organization, but frankly it does not matter to me. It is not about the LC/RC. The first day the news of the scandal came out, I surrendered my opinion of what should happen to the Lord and have only tried to search for truth and to love. God will take care of the rest.

Peace.

"That doesn't mean that their tormentors, their murderers, get special graces for being the vehicle through which the martyrs won heaven."

that is exactly where
"SPEAKINGTHETRUTH" is going.

Sadly, when our parish was blowing up because of the presence of RC/LC and an enabling priest there were people just like the above who were ready with fisticuffs to defend their belief. Of course, it provoked fisticuffs from the other side of the argument also. But this is the nature of parallel entities in our church to day. They foment division. BECAUSE their passion has been usurped they always find themselves railing against the very faith they think they subscribe to. That being the Holy Mother Church, WITH ALL OF ITS WARTS,WITH ALL OF ITS VARIOUS LEVELS OF BELIEF.

Not to mention that he is, Pete mentions, desperate.
Why? because the very thing he so desperately believes in can no longer, even in his own mind be held aloft, above others who inhabit the church. This is the ethos that parallel churches ignite in others, WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU, MORE FIT TO BELIEVE IN HOLY MOTHER CHURCH, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN EITHER LEAVE OR CONFORM.

For his own sake, (and i am sure he will do this) return to the fundamental place to which he converted, that would be the primal love of Christ, perhaps in the Eucharist, or even the very idea, and/or prayer, that Jesus is his first love. It can never be so attached to the flesh of LC/RC and its administrations,again. Or even LC/RC's detractors.
It is simply not who Christ is. Jesus is asking this young man or woman to grow. And certainly not for my sake, or the others here on this blog.

So don't be mad at anyone here, unless you don't want to be free to move on with your life. and if not, i can understand you anger.

Two simple comments about Jim Unfair's statements. Maciel founded "hundreds" of seminaries??? Talk about exaggeration, or lies.
They have "toned down" the veneration??? Why were they "venerating" ANY living person! That's NOT Catholic. The Missionaries of Charity didn't venerate Mother Teresa!And they found out he was a fraud before he died. Venerate? How disturbed these people still are!

Sidebar for Bruce:

Bruce -- I am also dealing with an enabling pastor, who thinks L/R is a "great outfit" and that the AV basically boils down to church politics. I would love to hear your perspective of how your parish dealt with this. I have hijacked enough threads around here, and don't want to take this one off-topic.

If you are open to exchanging e-mail addresses through Giselle, it would help me to learn what worked/didn't work for you. If not, no problem.

This person "SPEAKINGTHETRUTHBCITISWHATWEARECALLED2DO" posted the same message on many of the previous posts of Giselle's.

I doubt they read anything that any of us wrote. Too sad.

Pete, what you wrote is so compassionate.

It kind of reminds me of a person who decides to leave a bad relationship... they usually have done all the work/grieving/decision making & then when they decide it's finally time to say they're leaving, the person they're leaving claims they have no idea what just happened and thinks the relationship was perfect. The one leaving is in peace and can rationally defend their position, but the one who's being left is just starting their grief/anger process and really can't deal with what's going on. Thanks for the reminder to remain compassionate and rational.

Ok, I'm seriously interested in the outcome of the AV, for various reasons, but my melancholic brain doesn't take all this arguing well; how much longer after the report can we expect to find out what decisions are being made?

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