Whose inheritance?

Interesting, coming on the day we heard in Mass about the Lord's vineyard and it's produce:

He was a very wealthy man and his wealth belongs quite rightly to his natural children. None of it belongs to his spiritual children because he doesn’t have any. (Unless he so thoroughly corrupted someone that he is following in the footsteps. In which case he needs to be put where he won’t need any money.) Simple justice – the assets of the Legion should be liquidated and the funds split, with half going to all his natural children and the other half into a fund to compensate other victims and assist the rehabilitation of those who have given all and spent many years and have no where to go.

Comments

[Anon out of RC]

"Maciel's pathology was shared by his own religious order," an expert on religion, Bernardo Barranco, told IPS. "He contaminated the congregation. They not only concealed his double life, but tolerated his out-of-control behaviour. They worshiped him, extolling the false image of a person who never existed and covering up for an abominable monster."

When does the LC leadership take responsibility for that sin?

When do all LCs now take responsibility for their leadership's ignorance of this fraud and the pain he caused so many - I see lost faith, broken prayer lives, hurting ex-RC women all around me and that is only the tip of the iceburg. As moms most of us cannot even comprehend the monstrosity of the man we were told to read from every night as 2nd degree members (up until Feb of last year!). Any contributions so many gave were not cared for prudently and now will go for compensation to these families (which it should)!

When do LC break their vow of obedience to follow God's law that an apology, retribution, compensation should have gone out to the 9 sexual abuse victims (their brothers!!) immediately. All of the LC should be reaching out to these men in love like Fr Berg and Fr Richard did on the first day of the scandal.

Their brothers who were shunned by the "family" are now heros for perservering and having courage to continue to tell their story.

Dear Jesus have mercy on us all.

[Anon]

I am heartsick. The LC I am very close to finally contacted me. He is still totally believing Alvaro to be a good and faithful man. If the LC comes crashing down I don't know if he will survive.

[Aaron]

The mexican parliament cannot shut dowm the catholic congregation of the Legion of Christ, but as a Ltd Co. (Legion of Christ Inc. - which is Legion de Cristo S.A. in spanish) the state has duties and some control.

The state says that it has the power to shut the Inc. down because of its immorality.

What is telling is that all of the Mexican political parties are unanymous in their demands for the Legion to address the victims.

I believe I read that the lawyer - Bonilla - representing the family had an acknowledment from the Legion that they were illegitimate children of Maciel. More research needed there...

[anon]

So the Legion really thinks accepting payment of damage silently is extortion?

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50570

RELIGION-MEXICO: Legion of Christ Scandal Escalates
By Emilio Godoy

MEXICO CITY, Mar 6, 2010 (IPS)

...Another Mexican woman who had a relationship with Maciel lives in Spain with her daughter, who the order has publicly acknowledged as the daughter of the Legion's founder.

They live in comfort in a luxury apartment after apparently reaching an agreement with the order to keep ___quiet___.

[Pete Vere]

SHUT. IT. DOWN.

[reid]

From a previous thread:

“Now you want us to believe that the words he spoke were the truth while the details of his life did not conform?” [gregorbo March 04 10:20 p.m.]
Gregorbo's question brings to mind that old but true saying, “Actions speak louder than words.”

“enabling sect,” “takeover committee” - you took off in the right direction, bruce. I'll add, mm reigns as the one-eyed king in the country of the blind because he always knew what it was always all about . . . himself!

Personal note: I have friends who with their children are deeply involved in the “movement.” I read giselle's blog and occassionally post a comment because I'm trying to understand why and how this sect stops people's propensity to think. My friends were active and thoughtful Catholics long before they joined the “movement.” I think they are still thoughtful - about other matters, but not about matters legion or rc. With regards to l/rc, they seem to have been struck blind and deaf by their association with the “movement.''

[Claire]

reid,

Regarding your friends...

In the Reign of Legion as in everything the Devil touches, Satan's work "darkens the intellect and weakens the will."

By Satan's fruits you shall know him.

[Steve]

Reid:

The supreme virtue for moving ahead in MM's empire is "docility". It trumps every other virtue, even the theological ones.

If you aren't docile, you don't advance.

And to be docile in the empire, you've got to turn off any and all critical thinking skills or the place starts to stink too much.

[Dissolution only]

reid, this is a real problem which culminates from one source - a diabolical man. You RC friends are told not to read the blogs because the blogs are full of lies. The Vow of Charity is alive and well which means RC members are obedient. The Vow of Charity was set up primarily to protect the diabolical founder, but it also protects the Legion. An RC member should NEVER criticize another member or LC - if they do - they will be ostracized. As Giselle so kindly reminds us this is a cult. Pete Vere tells us it is cursed. These people are very sick and they really do need prayers if they are to escape the stronghold of evil forces attached to them.

[Ohh]

I know someone in california who's 12 year old son went to the legion "seminary" (school of indoctrination and control) recently. The child is from a poor family and isn't handsome. I guess they are desperate to fill the ranks. Pray for him!

[anonymous]

Dissolution only said:

"As Giselle so kindly reminds us this is a cult. Pete Vere tells us it is cursed. These people are very sick and they really do need prayers if they are to escape the stronghold of evil forces attached to them."

Exactly! This must be kept at the forefront of all our thoughts and efforts. it's good, healthy, and important to discuss all the info we get, of course, but we can't afford to get lost in endless debating of the rest of the details. THIS IS SPIRITUAL WAR.

[Dissolution only]

Anon 11:53. Discussion is paramount wrt to exposing the l/r web of deception, lies, and evil. We need both to rid the Catholic Church from legion regnum.

[Dissolution only]

"As Giselle so kindly reminds us this is a cult. Pete Vere tells us it is cursed. These people are very sick and they really do need prayers if they are to escape the stronghold of evil forces attached to them."

Just to clarify: "These people" = "Active RC" which sane readers understand.

[Anonymous]

I pray for dissolution, but I would speculate about two points that give me concern:
1) In some off-the-cuff comments I have received from LCs, their sense is the AV will make some modest changes, but as a group they have nothing to worry about. The leadership, the AV, and the Holy See in official language so far does not want to project any form of shake-up, but 'all is well' for the members.
2) When I look at the communication policy of the LCs it is truly insane if you look at it from the point of the public, the outward face of the LC. However, looking internally it may make more sense. It seems to be set so they can keep the idea going that they are the ones under attack, i.e. the LCs in the rank and file, that they-the LC- are in effect Christ, the Church under attack. All is working for one goal, hold onto control of the LCs that keeps them identifying the essence of the Faith with the structure of Legion.
It makes me sick...
Personally, I think the only way dissolution will happen is if enough Bishops start pushing Rome for it, there is a lot of passivity [press speculation aside] in Vatican-ease statements thus far to think they are fully alert on this one.

[anonymous]

http://andabonusbaby.blogspot.com/

[anon]

If anon 2:00 was actually the author of the blog...

Of course the legion is the victim. carry on.

By the way, here's what a friend who wants the best for you thinks you need to focus on:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1339296?eng=y

Fr. Thomas Berg:

...inability to see and honestly recognize the flaws and errors that so many people outside the Legion are able to see.

...an unhealthy suppression of personal freedom (which is a far cry from the reasoned, discerned and freely exercised oblation of mind and will that the Holy Spirit genuinely inspires in the institution of religious obedience) and occasions unholy and unhealthy restrictions on personal conscience.

...a simplistic, and humanly and theologically impoverished notion of God's will (its discernment and manifestation) that breeds personal immaturity.

...the negative personality change which many, if not most, Legionaries undergo over time: the shallowness of their emotional expression, the lack of empathy and inability to relate normally to others in so many contexts, the general sense of their being "out of touch," etc.

...It would be a very honest gesture for the Legion of Christ to simply call a halt to all vocational work at least for the duration of the canonical visitation, and even better until it finally gets its house in order.

...systematically deprived of the kind of information they not only have a right to know but a fundamental need to know: a complete presentation of the basic facts of Fr. Maciel's double life

...largely unaware of most of these things, shielded as they are from virtually all negative information about the Legion and Regnum Christi. Consequently, they lack the requisite interior freedom to genuinely discern God's calling in their lives at present.

[anonymous]

From the blog posted above http://andabonusbaby.blogspot.com/:

"And that is really sad, because the Legionaries are responding in a manner that should give joy and delight to the heart of every serious Catholic. Legionaries are leading RC members to bring every possible resource they have to bear in service of their bishops and their pastors. Legionaries are apologizing and trying to behave pastorally toward their accusers and followers in impartial gospel charity. They bless and laud their brothers who leave their company affirming their value in their vocations and their confidence in God's will for thier lives. They continue to proclaim their fidelity to the Holy Father, submit with whole hearts to the apostolic visitation, and pray fervently for God's perfect will in all circumstances regarding them and anyone who has been harmed by any of this. AND they continue to try to implement reform with immediacy according to feedback and direction they have receieved from the Church. It is a living, breathing witness to conversion and this should make all Catholics who know the heart and mind of Jesus Christ happy and hopeful."

Jo,
You are still falling for the lies and deception of the LC priests. You may not be aware of just HOW MUCH THEY ARE PLAYING YOU LIKE A FIDDLE!

1. They are asking you to help your Bishops and pastors, not out of humility and the goodness of their heart, but so that you can "flatter" them. This way the LC priests can get to unsuspecting souls by using your goodness. Believe me, the game is still on. The RC members in our parish (Dallas)are welcomed with open arms. So many people are trying to cling to them as brothers & sisters in Christ APART from the twisted methodology of the movement and the LC priests. (Do you know how hard that is???? You are soooooo attached) The problem is not that no one is reaching out to them or in the people reaching out to them; it is in the attitude of the RC members. They only want to "help out" when it will work to their advantage. They are EXTREMELY critical of everything! They text each other to spread detraction about our pastor when he mentions food in his homily. Nothing and no one is good enough for them. They find fault with everything from the books we use in RE, our youth program, the homilies, to how we run our adult programs. The problem as we all see it is that "you are straining the gnat and swallowing the camel!" You complain about things that are VERY small in comparison to what the organization you belong to is BEING FORCED to face up to.
It is obvious to most people that the RC people cause division wherever they go. That is the anti-charism. YOU ARE NOT THE VICTIMS of your fellow parishioners, you are victims of the LC and you are the ones victimizing the parish staff!!!

2. "Legionaries are apologizing and trying to behave pastorally toward their accusers and followers in impartial gospel charity"

Hahahahahahahah. Maybe when your looking for appearances sake. Give me one example of this! Maybe they SEEM to be doing this because they are trying to save their buts. After all, many of their names have been written up in testimonies and submitted to the AV. True Charity? Not! Utilitarinism!!

3. "They bless and laud their brothers who leave their company affirming their value in their vocations and their confidence in God's will for thier lives."

Once again, for appearances sake. We know of first hand testimonies from cities like Atlanta where those that have "defected" were referred to as "not strong enough" and those that have remained are flattered for their unwavering fidelity to CHRIST.

4. "They continue to proclaim their fidelity to the Holy Father, submit with whole hearts to the apostolic visitation, and pray fervently for God's perfect will in all circumstances regarding them and anyone who has been harmed by any of this."

Yes, they are in "suck up" mode. However, based on the lies and spin that is going on this also is only for appearances sake. If they really respected the Holy Father they would not still be following the "secret vows" in spirit. They would admit their own personal guilt instead of claiming that "no one except MM had a clue." Please!

[anonymous]

continued...

5. "there are days when I would gladly leave RC and the Legion in disgust (because I don't want to be associated with sin and scandal anymore than anyone else) if God gave me leave to do so, but He has not. Just like He never gave me leave to abandon my husband or my children when they grievously offended me with their behavior at times, and just like He has not given them leave to abandon me in kind. Nor has He given me leave to return to some version of Protestantism more according to my taste, when this Church family has failed so seriously to behave in a manner worthy of His name and the Gifts He has so lavishly bestowed."

Jo, this is where the lines between your vocation as a Baptized Catholic and "vocation" to the movement are disturbingly blurred. You are called and given the grace to remain faithful to your family and to your Church but you are not obligated to remain faithful to RC. Faithfulness to RC does NOT = faithfulness to Christ! As a matter of fact you are more than likely lacking in authentic discernment here. The Holy Spirit is (IMHO) trying to set you free!! There is NO WAY He would want you to be a part of this blasphemy! You are falling for the brainwashing MO of the LC priests. They know exactly what to say, how to say it in order to flatter you just enough to cause you to confuse your fidelity to them with fidelity to Christ. Have you heard things like: "The Holy Father is counting on you!" "You will go down in history as the ones who saved the movement." Please try to look at those who have left from another view point - Christ's & Our Sorrowful Mother's view point- THEY are the ones who are following God's Will by leaving behind so much of what they held dear. They are helping to "bring into the light what is hidden in darkness." They are true heros. You are so stuck on yourselves that you can't even see it! Once again, do not fall into the temptation of seeing yourself as a victim. It is not the cross of Christ you are carrying, but a self imposed cross.

[anon]

Jo, unfortunately, you are only aware of the "tip of the ieceberg" as far as the gravity of guilt of the LC priests. You are a part of a cult that is in the process of "reaping the whirlwind!" and it is about time! Thank you, God, for justice!!! Now, maybe there will begin to be true healing for everyone involved!

Hosea 8 - Sow the Wind, Reap the Whirlwind

A. Sowing idolatry, reaping exile.

“Set the trumpet to your mouth! He shall come like an eagle against the house of the Lord(lc/rc), because they have transgressed My covenant and rebelled against My law. Israel will cry to Me, ‘My God, we know You!’ Israel has rejected the good; the enemy will pursue him. They set up kings, but not by Me; they made princes, but I did not acknowledge them. From their silver and gold they made idols for themselves; that they might be cut off. Your calf is rejected, O Samaria! My anger is aroused against them; how long until they attain to innocence? For from Israel is even this: A workman made it, and it is not God; but the calf of Samaria shall be broken to pieces. They sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind. The stalk has no bud; it shall never produce meal. If it should produce, aliens would swallow it up. Israel is swallowed up; now they are among the Gentiles like a vessel in which is no pleasure. For they have gone up to Assyria, like a wild donkey alone by itself; Ephraim has hired lovers.Yes, though they have hired among the nations, now I will gather them; and they shall sorrow a little, because of the burden of the king of princes. Because Ephraim has made many altars for sin, they have become for him altars for sinning. I have written for him the great things of My law, but they were considered a strange thing. For the sacrifices of My offerings they sacrifice flesh and eat it, but the Lord does not accept them. Now He will remember their iniquity and punish their sins. They shall return to Egypt.For Israel has forgotten his Maker, and has built temples; Judah also has multiplied fortified cities; but I will send fire upon his cities, and it shall devour his palaces.””

[anono]

But what about Jesus Christ and what He said about this kind of behavior? The problem here is Catholics, especially the good ones, don't know the answer to that question, because they don't know their Bible. Jesus would prefer we not make a spectacle out of ourselves in front of unbelievers. Jesus would prefer we keep these things private in order to preserve the well being of the weaker onlooker. Jesus would prefer to see charity in forgiveness and hope paraded around in His name rather than judgement, condemnation, outright hatred and vengefulness. See Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, in their entirety for proof texts.
(Hatred and vengefulness tend to show up in the comments on breaking news stories about the Legion not in the stories themselves."

Jo, Of course, if you view the LC and MM as an extension of yourself then you will feel so "persecuted." This is, in actuality, NOT ABOUT YOU! Has your name been mentioned? Has your character personally been impugned? Probably not. Please try not to take this so personally. This is God's way of cleaning house! To your surprise, I am sure, there are MANY who are working to reveal the truth, that are VERY familiar and guided daily by Scripture! Let me share a few key passages with you that are clear in how to deal with this:

1. I am not sure if you are aware of how the LC sued Regain for airing their dirty laundry. The following applied then and certainly continues to apply: "Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words--go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet.
15
Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
16
"Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves.
17
8 But beware of people, for they will hand you over to courts and scourge you in their synagogues,
18
and you will be led before governors and kings for my sake as a witness before them and the pagans.
19
When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say.
20
For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
21
9 Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise up against parents and have them put to death.
22
You will be hated by all because of my name, but whoever endures to the end 10 will be saved.
23
When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. 11
24
No disciple is above his teacher, no slave above his master.
25
It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, for the slave that he become like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, 12 how much more those of his household!
26
"Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. 13
27
What I say to you in the darkness, speak in the light; what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.
28
And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna" (Matt 10).

2. How about the Gospel from Friday. The Legion has been notoriuos for destroying the reputations of their "detractors" (those who have uncovered the evil):

33 "Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country.
34 When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit;
35 and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them.
37 Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, `They will respect my son.'
38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.'
39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
41 They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons."
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it."
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
46 But when they tried to arrest him, they feared the multitudes, because they held him to be a prophet.

Jesus, did not mince words with the Pharisees. He publically called them out many times even when the "weak" were at risk. Remember the money changers in the temple?

[SickNTired]

Jo, you said:
"Jesus would prefer we not make a spectacle out of ourselves in front of unbelievers."

And you know this, how?

Yeah, good thing picking up a whip of cord and beating strangers isn't making a "spectacle" out of oneself. Oh, wait...

"The problem here is that this attitude shows so little respect and regard for our obedience to Christ..."

No, it shows little respect for obedience to LC/RC - which is exactly what you SHOULD be doing! You cannot respect that which is, at its core, against the teachings of the church.

"But NOWHERE is there any public Catholic media acknowledgment or recognition of the response of Legionary leadership to their situation."

You really have your priorities totally screwed up, don't you? Typical RC formation.

"Legionaries are apologizing..."

To whom? The victims (which justice demands)? Name them. Who? When?

"They bless and laud their brothers who leave their company affirming their value in their vocations and their confidence in God's will for thier lives."

That's a lie. Not the 3GFs and LC seminarians who left. They were given a boot in the ass and spit in their eye.

"Frankly, I am ashamed of the whole lot of us..."

Speak for yourself. I didn't stick my hands down my own son's pants and take pictures of it. Nor did I hide those pictures or burn them when pedophile died.

[anonymous]

Jo said:
"if I were not RC myself, I would be totally grossed out by the stories flying around in Catholic media circles."

I am not rc and I am not "totally grossed out" by the truth of maciel's perversity.

I AM HORRIFIED.
I AM DISGUSTED.
I AM SICKENED.
I AM REPULSED.
I AM ENRAGED.

[anono]

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8368043710200134975&postID=468202448576775211

chimakuni said...
Hello, you venting! I can understand your frustration, your irritation with those who comment about RC/LC.

You write that when your husband or son has grievously offended you, you have stuck with them.

Did they ever molest a child?

Did they ever engage in incest?

Did they found a religious order on fraud and smoke and mirrors?

It is one thing to honor the sacramental vows of your marriage, it is quite another thing to follow an order whose founder has for years been a person of dishonesty and very little integrity.

I withhold any judgement against any person ... but I do judge people's behavior and the behavior of incest, sodomy, coercion are not only wrong, they are sinful, according to Holy Mother Church.

The letter I read from Father Sketcherly accuses Maciel's son of extortion - it does not have a reconciling tone, nor does it have a compassionate pastoral tone to it.

I will pray for you and your family during this very difficult time of new revelations regarding Father Maciel. I am praying for all of those who unwittingly are caught up in this scandal.

God Bless you -

March 6, 2010 10:49 AM

Jo Flemings said...
chimakuni-

Father Maciel is dead. Ultimate and perfect justice toward him is imminent.

No one I know condones or excuses sodomy, incest, or fraud. But every single Catholic is compelled by the example of the Crucified to forgive, and we are commanded to reconcile with the repentant in as far as we are able to according to what is prudent. Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you."

So, tell me where it is written that the rest of the Legion deserve to suffer for a dead man's crimes? How is that just? Are they all guilty by association of the same crimes?

Is the work of God in their midst a fraud? Are the hundreds of Leigonary ordinations to the Catholic priesthood a fraud? Are the conversions of souls through their apostolates a fraud?

For that matter, if we are going to throw the baby out with the bath water maybe we should start thinking about the whole Church because last time I checked, the problems attributed to the Legion are the same ones at large for the entire western Roman Catholic Church.

I think the premises of our assessment need clarification. Which is why we have an apostolic visitation, and it is up to them and the Holy Father, the only ones correctly equipped to bear such a burden, to tell us the fate of the Legion and not we ourselves to pronounce it or what it ought to be.

Under the circumstances, I thought Fr. Skertchly's letter was very pastoral, and if the man claiming to be a son of Maciel's is one, then I hope he is appropriately compensated and cared for, but if he is not then what exaclty is this that he is doing- and exactly how should a priest best guide a soul in this precarious unknown state?

As far as I know, we do not know one way or the other what the situation actually is. I think that before the Legion parts with 26 million dollars the facts ought to be clear for everyone concerned. I would very much like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but that is really hard to do, isn't it?

You cannot give Skertchly the benefit and I cannot give the son the benefit, so where does that leave us? Falling short of what Christ has asked of us, both of us? Or what? I am open to instruction here.

I appreciate your comments, and the sacrifice of your time to read my blog and write here, and especially your concern for what is right.

May the promise of Matthew 5:6 be your reward:
"Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."

March 6, 2010 2:55 PM

[Dissolution only]

Stop wasting your time folks. The active RC members who defend the legion cannot see or hear the Truth. Pray for dissolution. Time away from regnum legion is their only hope now. Pray for them. They are lost souls in an ocean of evil.

[Lee]

I take it that anono is Jo? as in Just Jo with the blog?http://andabonusbaby.blogspot.com/

I believe Holy Mother Church is trying her best to help those in the LC and RC, but Jo and others like her are hunkered down in a battle mentality - however, they are fearful of what they are going to be coming up against - the truth about their founder, about their whole order.

See - a house built on sand will not stand...

Dissolution only - you are correct - prayers and more prayers.