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Giselle -

Is the AV Report that close to being issued? A while back I heard something about it taking several months.

The buzz had pointed to this friday, the 30th for some sort of announcement. Who knows?

There was a post on the NCR thread asking God to have mercy on those "seeking scandal.". What will we do after this announcement? I guess there are always scandals in the celebrity world we can seek. ;-)

I'll add to that wheat and darnel... that is a parable that parallels this one, only there is a timeline to it. In my thoughts, it is how I hope to explain why God has permitted this to go on for sooo long. I know some very real goods from the Church were left here to grow, I cannot explain why- yet, but with this parable I would really get a shot as it, if the LC were totally dissolved, freeing those goods to return to other places in the Church where darnel no longer was ready to choke them. Yes, with a healthy, proactive, pastorally managed dissolution, it would make sense in that mystery of God permitting and then triumphing over evil. It would not explain all, but it would be a start leaving heaven to do the rest.

Oops, I just realized you were talking about the same one.... I am a little slow today, allergies and all...

I'm all for separating the wheat from the weeds.

My concern is that there will be a decision that doesn't say ALL the weeds are bad. I don't want to see a microcosm within a microcosm. For example, this weed hasn't been proven to do any real harm; so, we won't worry about it for now.

Archbishop Chaput's schedule shows him traveling to Rome April 27 - May 2. That would be in keeping with the April 30 date that had been noted earlier.

Giselle, Of course that parable doesn't mean anyone can do whatever they want to the field while good stands by:

I'm not sure the wheat parable is exactly right.... an enemy didn't come and sow weeds among the grain...

Rather, the Legion is like a young midwestern man who decided to grow.... weed. Now, obviously a field of weed would alert the authorities. So he set himself up as a farmer and acquired corn to plant around the weed. To outside observers, it looked like a normal cornfield. In fact, some of the corn plants looked better than the norm (They were a breed that looked good, but produced inedible ears of corn)

Unless someone took the trouble to wander into the maize or fly over with a helicopter, the weed was hidden from view.

But now the local sheriffs dept. are on to him. Noone will want his lousy, looks-good-tastes-poison corn, and noone is wandering into the maize. Now, the job for the sheriff is to get all the lost people out and then have a big bonfire for the weed. Once the 'farmer' is no longer fertilizing, the bad corn is bound to wither. And the people who used to wander in the field will be happier on another local farm, where the fruits and fields are exactly what they seem.....

Deirdre is right. The parable is about an enemy in the night who LEAVES. We're talking about an enemy who STAYS to run the whole thing and grooms everyone to enable his farming operation.

Maybe, Mouse, and your explanation works. But I was thinking that the farm was the larger Church, and the weeds were the Legion. They crept into the cornfield, since the farmer had spread the best fertiliser and watered it regularly. That allowed the weeds to thrive.

Eventually, the farmer recognised them for what they were, but knew that their roots were wrapped around the roots of the cornstalks, so he didn't want to yank them out. He's working on a laser beam that will zap the biggest leaves of the weeds so that the necessary photosynthesis process is crippled.


Deirdre's take fits the LC mess more exactly because it distinguishes between fields run by good servants where the darnel grows up among the wheat. And fields run by the enemy where wheat is groomed to enable the darnel.

But whichever way you apply the parable the question of how to care for the wheat remains. My take is that the jig is up. The truth is out. And the wheat says it's waiting on the Pope to take care of the good.

First step is to sack the managers and their agricultural handbooks and start over from scratch.

Can we clarify one point that may shape people's expectations? There is no AV Report that will be publicly announced. The Visitators were confidential fact finders, whose advice will certainly be listened to carefully, and who will doubtless continue to be summoned by the Holy See, they do not make decisions and do not issue a public report.

What will happen is that the Holy Father will take some public action with regard to the Legion. That action may or may not reflect the Visitator's recommendations -- for all we know it could be a solution he's been pondering personally for months.

Or a farmer (Church) growing sweet corn and the Enemy sows field corn in the field, so now you have three kinds of corn growing, only one of which is edible. The field corn is of course useful, as is the "male" corn, but you would have to detassel both the "female" rows and the field corn halfway through the summer. (With sweet corn, you plant two different kinds of corn so you have a hybrid. The "female" corn is detasselled halfway through the summer so the ears will only be pollinated from the "male" corn. You can't have any field corn growing in the area or else the wind might carry it to the sweet corn fields.) The pope better start detasselling the field corn, or else uproot it before the whole crop is ruined.

Thank you, DF. You're exactly right.

If I had to speculate on what the first announcement might bring it would 99.9% probably be the announcement of the Vatican commissar(s).

It would as usual be shrouded in a very positive, pastoral language. The meat of the Vatican plan would not come until he had taken up his post, and had found his second lieutenants. From there ,some weeks from now, the plan would be laid out and we would see whether dissolution-re-foundation or reform would be the order of the day.
A declaration of exclaustration or nullification of vows would be the most significant mind-changing event we could hope for, for the rank and file in the coming weeks.


IMHO I have always believe the Pope has known exactly what he was going to do. The AV was following established Church procedure regarding anything needing looking into.

Perhaps the AV reinforced his thinking, perhaps it brought out a few things he didn't know...but he always knew what needed to be done.

Although, I must admit, the clerical abuse scandal coming at the same time definitely had an unforseen impact as well.

anon 1:50. that followed by nullification of the current constitution and suspension of new vows until a general chapter could all add up towards a path to refoundation into a smaller group without ties to RC.

Deo volente.

DF, Yes, the reported reason for the Visitor's trip is to be at hand to answer questions as decisions are being made or packaged. If potential commissioners are at the session then an announcement would be imminent.

"...what happens in Legionland is no different than what happens in the wider world, and that we have to make peace with the good and the bad -- in fact the good couldn't happen without the accompanying bad because that's just life in a fallen world."

Ok, this may sound simplistic but I tend to be a plain spoken person and I am a bit impatient today with those of RC who think this way (many of which I know)...

Edmund Burke said, "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.". That is true. Each individual must ask themself...what exactly do I stand for?

With the case of LC and MM it is so vividly apparent that there is evil. And it was through God's grace and a thorough personal assessment that I was able to walk away from RC.

One verification of the evil I have received has been when I described the MM/LC situation to those who have no prior knowledge of it. In EVERY one of those conversations those people have been shocked and agreed that evil is present.

As Giselle pointed out, it is only when RC people live within their "microcosm" that they can justify their continued participation.

Far West, you are so right. When my sister asked me last year why Gateway was closing its high school, it inevitably led to a more in-depth discussion of the Legion. I found myself giving a list of pros and cons about the school and the Legion, blah, blah, blah. When I told her that MM had been accused of sexually abusing seminarians, she said, "That's enough of a reason to leave. You don't need to know anything else."

When we're too close to the situation, we take each and every event and weight it against the entire history of the order. That's why we keep coming up with "good fruits." It is so helpful and essential to ask someone outside of the situation. When I've shared even little things that seemed inconsequential to me, other "outside" people were shocked and troubled. I remember being hesitant to tell other people that the school was run by the Legion. That was a big, red flag that I ignored.

Another red flag that's obvious on the outside:

The whole CDF investigation. Orthodox orders are not investigated by the CDF.

For most Catholics, when you see "under investigation" linked with an order, it means "Stay away--schismatics ahead!"

I think Anonymous's take on how things will play out is probably spot on.

If exclaustration is really announced, that's huge. In effect, it's dissolution of the LC. What's left behind would be a holding facility for those who aren't ready to leave, to give them time to discern their individual situation and/or figure out as a group if there is some new mission they could pursue, unrelated to anything bequeathed by Maciel.

In order for exclaustration to have its full effect the Commissar would have to break simultaneously all the group-think, conscience control techniques that LC uses that predetermine choices before they are made. It happens in this mindset superiors project- the one who are with 'the elect' will want to stay, cowards-doubters need to be isolated and contained, they have 'issues', so their cancer does not spread.

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