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Giselle,

I think that's a good idea -- but really these guys who are put in charge of these investigations should be seeking out such information. Maybe they and their staff should enroll in one of the Criminal Justice courses at a college in their diocese -- I think the courses cover investigative techniques and evaluating the truthfulness of witnesses.

Are they clueless or what?

Most lawsuits are filed by people concerned with some kind of injustice done to them. The legal system doesn't seek them out to file lawsuits on their behalf.

Sheesh!

Anon2020, I'm not the biggest fan of Roo's but I agree with her this time; do you not want to help the visitor, you'd rather complain later that he didn't spend his time chasing down every ex3gf in the world?? I'd imagine the Legion kept poor records of who left under unpleasant circumstances.

I can't speak for the 3gf, or the 3gm for that matter, but having spoke to various lc's before leaving I got the impression that our interviews with the Apostolic Visitors were open and frank. I for my part spoke openly about everything I knew. The Visitor asked specific questions, to which I responded honestly. Let us hope enough of the 3g's will have the courage to speak the truth.

Read,

Not sure what you mean about seeking out people to file lawsuits.

When a person is charged with investigating an organization, it only seems logical for him or her to seek and obtain information OUTSIDE the organization in order to properly carry out the mission.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help the appointee, but let's hope the guy is savvy enough to see past the "'serene' responses, the forced smiles and the confused deference towards superiors that will inhibit most members inside the RC houses from speaking freely."

If the investigator doesn't seek information outside regnum/legion to determine what's really going on, it would be like a police investigator responding to a 911 call by knocking on the door, asking if everything is OK, then walking away when he's told, "It's all fine, Officer" -- with the captive bound and gagged in the next room.

And as far as tracking down the third-graders or whatever they're called -- actually I think it's incumbent upon the investigator -- or someone on staff in the Church -- to do just that.

Or are we going to let them stay traumatized and isolated until the statute of limitations expires, as with the child sex-abuse victims?

Anon, I thought that Giselle was suggesting that people with a bone to pick with RC take advantage of the inquisition to broaden the inquisitor`s perspective to the movement as a whole.

The inquisitor has a mandate that appears to be limited, yet we know that the 3GF`s are integral to the system. Who is going to speak to that perspective if not people knocking at the door asking to be heard?

You want him to broaden his inquiry without his having the mandate to do so.

I`m only agreeing with Giselle that if it is going to happen, it will be because folks will have made it happen.

"...to broaden his inquiry..."

No -- rather -- to conduct a proper inquiry, not a pro-forma "visit" that does nothing but allow the status quo to continue -- with no regard for truth or justice.

"Investigate: to observe or study by close examination and systematic inquiry." (Merriam-Webster).

The mandate, it appears, is to investigate (not) "consecrated" women and the conditions in which they exist -- if there really is an investigation, the people charged with conducting the investigation will want to gather all relevant information -- not just to show up, ask the subjects of the investigation if everything is OK, then depart, ready to issue a report that with a few changes, this crazy organization that keeps saleswomen in a closed and limited system in the guise of a "religious" community -- will be just fine. It's just common sense to expect a thorough investigation, and not a whitewash.

And how are you going to hold the inquisitor to accountability if you are unwilling to take action?

Quite frankly, if I were a blissfully happy RC, I would be stacking the deck in my favour, and sending in my own positive feedback.

That is certainly their prerogative, Read it, and to be expected. Are you suggesting that we don't write? I'm confused about your approach to this visitation, as though you're discouraging participation for some reason.

giselle,
Look over the whole thread? Looks to me like Anon2020 is annoyed that we should write in since it's the visitor's job to find disgruntled ex3gf's and exrc's, while Read it and I are thinking you really can't complain about the visitor if you aren't going to lift a finger to help. That's the way I see this thread, anyway.

My apologies -- perhaps I misread. We simply need to take this opportunity to give our accounts, or not bellyache about the outcome.

You`ve got that right, Giselle. Now is the time for people to make the case that they`ve been making all of these years--on the 3GF`s and on RC as a whole.

If there have been abuses in spiritual direction, the seal of the confessional broken, shunning as a group practice, manipulation of your children, and so on, let it all be known to the inquisitor.

Otherwise, it is just so much whispering in the wind.

The point I'm trying to make is not that we shouldn't take Giselle's excellent suggestion and contribute facts to the investigator. Of course we should. (Although it was a little bit discouraging after all the time and effort that people apparently spent writing to "the shepherd" in the past -- with an apparent whitewash-type judgment issuing from the shepherd (like, "Thanks for the input, but I still think we need these kinds of cults b/c they seem to like me...").)

My point is that it's a no-brainer that the investigator should have scheduled lengthy appointments with many people who have left regnum/legion, and should be seeking further contacts from those people -- knowing that part of the MO of regnum/legion is dishonesty. Maybe he already has done that or is in the process of doing that.

I hope so.

Does anyone have contact info for Bishop Blasquez?

"-- knowing that part of the MO of regnum/legion is dishonesty." ... or dislike? Seems to me that if it is the former, the case needs to be made.

Lots of people had it in for the OP, and JPII made them a prelature to put them out of harms way. You just can't assume that others will think the same, or know what you do.

And complaining that something is a cult just doesn't cut it when what you are complaining to is just a bigger cult.

Read,

What you said doesn't make sense. Please clarify.

Here, too: are there any lay people on the visitor team?

mary ann | October 04, 2010 at 09:50 AM

No lay people on the official team.

Read it | October 03, 2010 at 06:37 PM

I understand and agree with your comment. I think perhaps you meant "OD" instead of "OP" (Dominicans.)

"The Monk",

If you understand the comment, maybe you can explain it. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for your correction, Mary Ann.

Anon, look up cult in the dictionary. Mine is a play on meanings.

particular secretary of d. ricardo blazquez: d. patricio fernandez gaspar. tlf. 983 217 929. e-mail: secretariaarzobispo@archivalladolid.org

quant,
Please explain the address... is this how to reach the Archbishop's secretary? Is this the most direct route known?

Does anyone have his snail mail address?

Finally, any guess if English will be read or should I find a translator?

I agree we should send short messages describing the worst offenses we can document, be they "coercion of the soul" incidences, or more fundamental issues like reading mail, lack of access to daughters in the apostolic school, etc.

I just directed a small list of questions to the address provided by quant. I will notify all what I receive in return.

polish pilgrim and giselle: my native language is spanish so i will send an e-mail to the address provided (i found it in the archdiocese of valladolid webpage) asking which is the most direct route to contact mons. ricardo blazquez. i will keep you posted.

Read,

Thanks, but I still don't understand your earlier comment.

Are you saying the Church is a cult like regnum/legion?!

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