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The financial control and the weird leader(s) -- in addition to all the other "marks" -- are certainly hallmarks of reglegcorp.

But of course that's because the whole purpose of the "reglegcorp" cult is financial gain -- and power -- for the "leaders" -- some of whom we can't even identify, apparently.

Would be unbelievable and almost funny if it were not so true, and had not lasted so long -- and if it had not taken place within the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Satan grows bolder.

The Legion is considered a cult by the cult experts and reading Mitch Horowitz's summary makes it quite obvious why. The leg-reg environment is extremely secretive and matches up closely with the BITE model.
If you accept that as a fact and then look at how other cult groups have reacted in an unpredictable manner when things go off the rails it is disturbing to think about for family members of those inside. I am not suggesting that leg-reg might start holding Kool Ade parties but it is difficult to know how the leaders could respond now that the wheels are falling off.
The p.t.b. seem to be holding onto power in a manner similar to Gadhaffi in Libya.
I have no idea what a worst case scenario could be but I don't expect anyone expected the Jim Jones or the Waco situations to be as bad as they were either.
I hope that the Vatican is consulting some psychological experts to advise them how to avoid anything that might have been prevented from happening.

Has anyone ever shared the criteria of a cult with an LC religious to see if they can recognize themselves?

Dilbert,

Very good point.

Prayers for prudence of officials charged with overseeing demise of reglegcorp -- to ensure safety of victims still trapped inside.

**** what's your point?

Q. Has anyone ever shared the criteria of a cult with an LC religious to see if they can recognize themselves?
A. Let me ask my superiors what I should answer, and I'll get back to you.

I love your insights, the way you call it like it is, Fr. John, thx.

I would encourage people to look at information about cults and recovery on http://www.icsahome.com/ and especially on http://www.refocus.org/index.html

I have met some of the people behind these websites and was at two ICSA conferences where they gave time for exLC members to talk about their experiences - the theme being cults in the catholic church.

I met Pete Vere at the conference in Atlanta and some other exRC and exLC, it was a truly great experience for me.

Thinking of the Legion as a cult and learning how it affected me was crucial in my recovery.

I had been at counselling for five years more or less but addressing the legion as a cult really made a difference.

Sometimes people shy away from the term cult - that term is not important, there are similarities for people who have been in a controlling relationship would also find the information about cults of use - that does not mean their relationship was a cult.

Please look at this description of post-cult trauma syndrome and see if it affects you or your family member:

http://www.refocus.org/post-cult-trauma-syndrome.html


And this is very useful - about critical thought as being important to recovery - its like it was written for exLC/RCs:

http://www.refocus.org/critical-thinking.html

From that last webpage:

Once the blocks to critical thinking in a group are uncovered, the majority of recovery has occurred. There are several suggestions that other former members have used to aid in regaining those particular skills.

1. Reminiscing. Many former members have reported memory loss as a result of being in a destructive group. One of the best ways to recover some of those memories is talking to old friends and family. Recovering those experiences that have been quashed in a group can help tremendously in regaining the real self-identity and re-establish the experiences that helped shape one’s decision making. Old photo albums, home movies, scrapbooks and other such items are of use here as well.

2. Journals. By keeping a journal through the recovery stage, one can measure feelings, measure progress and discuss decisions that have to be made. This is a way to gauge your progress and do this in a very personal way.

3. Hobbies/fun. This is where I tell people they have to re-learn how to have fun! Not only is it necessary to be able to have fun, but hobbies and such can aid in the thinking skills. Hobbies such as reading, chess and arts and crafts can re-establish those skills and it is all on your terms, not a destructive group leader’s terms.

4. Humor. Related to the above is humor. In most of the groups, humor was taboo. Most of one’s time was spent in grim types of settings. Any humor was seen as useless except when the leader used humor to degrade a member for something they did or did not do. In Psychology Today, an excellent discussion on humor was the major theme. The discussion outlines the types of humor out there as well as its importance and role in everyday life.

5. Give yourself a break. Simply put, you don’t have to do all this recovery work in one day. In fact, it won’t work! The idea that this is on a concrete timetable is the sort of thing that a destructive group would insist on. The time frame depends on the individual and the circumstances as well as the group that the person left. There is no one formula that works. While you are at it, give others a break too. You shouldn’t expect perfection from yourself or others around you.

I would strongly suggest that folks here save this article (and/or print copies) for future reference. It is very concise, and may be very useful in helping others to understand the legion's cult-like nature.

According to the WSJ webiste, this article will be available to non-subscribers for only 7 days.

Aaron -- thanks for sharing the cult-recovery information.

One thing I think everyone can and should agree on is that Maciel met most if not all the qualities of a cult leader. See the list here:

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/cprofile.htm

I think it depends how close you were to him and his web as to how impacted you were by the cultish parts of his methodology. In the cult book I just read called Cult, A Love Story, I was amazed at the power the cult leader had over those closest to her. Made me realize the hold on Fr Alvaro and company and why Fr A dealt with the scandal the way he did.

For those of us who were leaders, formators and second degree, I think we interacted with and taught Maciels methodology so we had to make it our own. Success for me even in Gods eyes was helping those I led and was responsible for to become integrated in the methodology (even though I always felt uncomfortable with the integration and recruiting part of the AFIRE team). The way I was supposed to do that is immerse myself in Envoy, the manuals at the center and anything to do with methodology.

Those who were newer or farther removed from the methodology maybe cannot see some of these cultic attributes of the methodology. But I would think most everyone could agree that Maciel meets the attached characteristics of cult leader to a tee!

I would also say, if you agree he meets the cult leader traits, it sorta makes sense that his methodology was cultish. The hard part is he used the Truth of the Church and our Lord to mask it. The true work for me when I left was separating out the good and the Truth from the cultish methodology.

I sent a link to this site (life-after-rc) website to an RC associate and was immediately rewarded with paragraphs of the typical reaction. amazing. paragraphs of "the pope loves us" and "don't slander" and spiritual recommendations. Good grief, Infear for this man's children, even if he weren't RC. which brings up the question of what kind of men would fall into it.

I don't mean as young people, or as seminarians, but full-grown adult men seeking out and liking Regnum Christi...

Mary Ann:

The numbers of RC men have always been small in the US compared to the women and now obviously are even more reduced.

As an aside:
In some ways I think we are approaching a more critical juncture in the coming months with the whole operation, given that a second wave of departures in the RC is bubbling in this moment underneath the surface.

I am hearing of a number of RC who were a little more diehard some months ago now going on the fence, especially after seeing the witness of the LC priests who have left, they are more encouraged to eventually make the shift. Some are just building their spiritual lives in other directions and keeping the RC around for friendships. Once the moment is right they will just cut the strings.

Similarly there are I am sure a new circle of LCs incubating for departure given the slow/prolonged nature and everyday less-promising signs of authentic reform. Fr. Gill's news piece highlights the sticking points.

If the numbers take another dip in the next year it will mean the crisis will not have hit bottom yet in the view of those on the inside. It means the existential awareness of "no end in sight" will be upon them and that the faithful have not been fooled by the shell games and feigned notions of charism.

Finally, there will come some sort of answer in the next year or two regarding the consecrated branch of RC, ie. if it will be made totally independent of the LC, at least as far as governance. Whether or not this would include 1st and 2nd degree members is hard to say- its just that the whole setup of the statutes is a complete mess from a canonical point of view. My personal opinion is that in the effort to straighten it out- from that alone- a significant part of membership will fall by the wayside in the process.

well, that's interesting and hopeful, but as someone who was not a member and with no personal emotional ties to the movement, I am amazed at how you who have left it can bear the amazing judgement, underhanded accusation, whiplashing remarks and snakelike attacks from people you thought were your friends. This experience from someone I barely know was unpleasant enough. and you ex-members are subjected to it while you are still confused and vulnerable. Sr. Briege, have some guts and go public.

Mary Ann,
We found it easier to bear those things here (like you, never joined; we were just trying to protect parish children from Challenge and K4J) once exlegionnaries.com led us to realize that this is an LC/RC M.O. and it wasn't just us. We've just gotten to where we can roll our eyes and call it "Regnum Christi's special brand of charity". Since there are very few people in RC here, it's actually kind of useful when Catholic parishioners see exactly how they treat us, what kind of rumors they start, etc. Actually, I usually spread the rumors further once I hear about them. "LTP is part of Regnum Christi/Mission Network so please research this group further and make an informed decision about getting involved. We have serious concerns about LTP's parent organization, the Legion of Christ. The founder has been called a 'false prophet' (Pope Benedict XVI) and the congregation is currently undergoing a reformation to see if it is salvageable.

When Challenge was recruiting and we sent out a similar email, there was some false innuendo about me soon afterward, similar to the stuff that went around about Fr JR after he banned RC from the parish, back when he was pastor. I did not have an affair with Fr Inresidence, despite what you may have heard, and please confirm any nasty rumors with me if any go around again this time. Thanks! Jeannette"

Mary Ann,I believe that was Benedicts job. He had ALL the information at hand when he appointed DePaolis and now these two men have failed miserably. They've failed the Catholic Church and her members AND managed to protect the priests yet again. NOTHING has changed in Church history. It's not Sr. Briege's job to fix what the POPE was supposed to do all along.

Dear Done, it was his job, and they appear to be failing. But I think that there is always a role for such as Catherine of Siena... come to think of it, she was not wholly successful at all. I look at it as the watchman on the wall. The one who sees must say, or he bears the fault of the one who errs.

"Dear Done, it was his job, and they appear to be failing. "

Not if Anonobserve is correct. The strategy is working if people are leaving. IT sounds like slowly but sureely many on the inside are realizing the truth . DEprograming does not happen overnight, I would wager each of us stayed much longer then we should have it was a slow process of revelation. Plus bear tactics usually cause people to entrench themselves further. I am basing this opinion on the postive statements from anonobserve. It sounds like mnay are at the point of no return.

Hope so. That's why I said "appear" - the successes are sub rosa at this point.

Why DO bear tactics cause people to entrench themselves? I mean, if your house was on fire, with your kids inside, you would want people to WAKE YOU UP!

I do understand, humanly, but I am not built that way. Smack me in the face anyday, as in the old movies, and I'll say, "Thanks, I needed that." Silk filter fade out....

Mary Ann - denial is the reason why bear tactics cause people to entrench.

They don't want to beleive that the house is on fire, because it will hurt them a lot.

We all experience denial at some point, I think of it as emotional anaesthetic - an attempt to prevent pain by denying the truth.

Acceptance is needed, but it is most effective when embraced freely and not forced.

I imagine denial is still foremost for most LCs. The lonest distance can be from the head to the heart, so I am told.

*longest

Maryanne wrote:

"Why DO bear tactics cause people to entrench themselves? I mean, if your house was on fire, with your kids inside, you would want people to WAKE YOU UP! "

Depends on my hormone levels that day. :-) (humor)

Sorry for the poor editing in my prior post.

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