A life "separate from reality"

Madrid - Nelly Ramírez Mota Velasco, the former director of  a house of consecrated women in León, Mexico was a member of the Legionaries of Christ for twelve years. In 2009 she learned she was being sent to Madrid on directions from the order, but within a month and a half  - the amount of time she was given to prepare for the trip - she realized that things were not as she had been led to believe. She did some research, and found “perverse conduct” pervading the Legion. She left, and wrote the book The Kingdom of Marcial Maciel (Planeta, 2011-Spanish only). On a visit in Madrid, the author spoke with MILENIO about her experiences in the Legion.

Why did you write this book?

I got the idea after seeing that within the Legion there was no awareness of the realities and the truth about Marcial Maciel’s life. By necessity you have to be aware that something is bad before it can be changed. What I have done in essence is to support the condemnation that Pope Benedict XVI made in a May 1, 2010 statement in that talks about how Maciel’s conduct impacted the structure and life of the movement. The objective of my book is to explain how this perverse conduct  pervades the Legion.

Was writing the book therapeutic after dredging up all the muck?

Yes. It always helps to be able to express things on a personal level - the work of investigating, of talking to other people. . . who were explaining to me how we deviated from church doctrine, how we no longer had personal freedom, and how there was no respect for intimacy

When did you realize that things in the Legion were not as you had thought, and did they want to make you think otherwise?

I realized it as I was leaving. I had been reassigned to Madrid. Previously, I had been a directress for seven years in León (Mexico). I received this assignment, and I went home for a month and a half, but I dragged the time out because I had begun to receive information, and things were not adding up. It was then, in the summer of 2009, that I began my investigation, and had the idea of writing a book.

How did your uneasiness lead you to begin investigating?

I had received information from outside. I also felt a strong desire for change in the institution. I wanted to know whom I was standing up for. After getting the news about Maciel, I was interested in knowing everything on a deeper level, and then to find out if it was consistent with my ideals. I never got to Madrid. I stayed at home because I realized how things were.

Whom did you tell that you would not be going to Madrid?

My directors. They respected me, and I did not give any explanations. I said only that I felt uneasy, and that I was staying in Mexico.

Did you have any fear in writing this book? Did you receive threats before or after?

Not threats against my life. But several Legionaries visited members of my family to try to convince them that what I was doing was unnecessary because they knew that I was writing something, but not what it was exactly. Previously there had been some moral blackmail. The told me things like, "As you judge, so shall you be judged." They told me that Jesus Christ did not judge, and therefore neither should I.

What is the reaction among Legionaries about the book’s publication?

It varies. There is one group that wants to see a renewal, that is aware of the realities, and another that is steadfast, that thinks any change is an affront to God. I believe that, within the culture of the Legion, a book like this is seen as an act of aggression, which it is not. It is simply a proposal for change, and my objective is to facilitate an internal dialogue. They also told me that they would ask God to forgive me for writing this book.

What did you lose by being in the Legion for twelve years?

I would rather focus on what I have gained by leaving. I have regained my freedom, the closeness to my family,  the opportunity to share with friends what I am feeling inside, and above all the  power to make my own decisions. That is a blessing.

What form does “brainwashing” take within the organization?

You live in a type of, quote-unquote, free enslavement. The statutes say that obedience means surrendering your judgement and free will. But in the church it is not like that because you have the ability to differ,  to not surrender your judgement. You are free to decide if something makes sense to you or not, and that is the value in obedience. In the case of the Legion, that is not the way it is, because even before you approach your superior, you have already surrendered your judgement. They can ask things of you that are against the law, against your conscience, but out of wanting to please God, you accept it.

How does the family come into play?

The rules are very strict. The first year you can talk with them only seven times. After that, you can see them twice a year. You really live a life disconnected from their troubles, from what a family is. You live separated from reality. They completely control you, they read your emails and letters, you have to ask permission to make a phone call, etc.

Do they expect you to meet certain monetary quotas?

There is an annual quota for the consecrated women, but it is not obligatory. But it is a congregation that encourages you to request financial donations. The annual quota for each consecrated is $7,000. In each center they ask for 40% of the annual budget, more than the  benefactors contribute, more than they receive.

Did you know Maciel personally?

Well, I don’t think I saw him more that four times. . . he would only pass by and wave.

Did he impress you?

Yes, a lot. But also because of all attention surrounding him. Everyone idealized him. They would say, “Here comes the saint, the great one. . .” They would tell us stories about how he had helped others, how he did not have time to do anything but pray. Later you realized that he did not pray, and did not even celebrate Mass.

Did it ever occur to you that he might be a pedophile? Did you hear rumors, or anything else?

I never thought he could be a pedophile or homosexual, or that he would misuse money. To me he was a saint, a martyr in life. . . In 1997 I found out about the sexual abuse, but I never believed it. I thought it was another test for him.

Did you know his daughter lives here in Madrid?

I found out in 2009. It was a painful moment, not only for the daughter, but for everyone else as well. That was when I began to ask questions. For example, why was this man so idolized?

Is it enough to reform the Legionaries of Christ?

There is an entirely new road to be travelled, as an institution and at the personal level, by each member and by the movement. . .there is an important road to be travelled with the victims.

After everything you have experienced, do you still believe in the church?

I believe there is a need to rediscover it. I believe in the Church because there were other priests who took me by the hand to help me through this process of change.

Comments

[gregorbo]

"I would rather focus on what I have gained by leaving. I have regained my freedom . . . ."

This is so much better put than anything I've read or heard from anyone that has left the Legion.

God Bless Her!

[Cory]

She mentioned the ability to share with her friends how she feels. I'm wondering if any of her friends shunned her for leaving. If they did, how did she respond to that?

[Anon out of RC]

Hope this book comes out in English. Her answers are very inspiring. I read an authentic love for her sisters in Christ and for the truth.

This line makes me sad she was silenced for 12 years thru the system but so happy she refound a beautiful piece of herself.

"the opportunity to share with friends what I am feeling inside"

The day we cannot do that is the day our lives are false.

[Ohh]

I agree Gregorbo. She seems to have much more awareness than Jonathan Morris.

[anonymous]

I look forward to reading this.

I hope she mentions in her book that neither she, nor any of the other ladies, are actually consecrated according to the Church's definition.

[JRC]

Just to mention, the book mentions a lot of things that have already been changed, and also mentions a lot of things that most of the LC are already aware of them and are in their way of changing.

Also, I will allow myself to make a superficial comment, but the book is way too boring. Is a remix of all the blogs that are "against" the LC, even this one. The style is very poor. The book contains nothing new to the usual readers of this blog and the "desidents" in general. Don't get to excited about it...

[JRC]

By the way anonymous, Mons. Blazqes during the visit has told the consecrated that they ARE consecrated, and that the Church does have recognized them as such.

[Joe]

JRC, the Church can recognize the Consecrated as they wish. Unfortunately for the Legionaries of Christ and its puppy dog followers, they are viewed as a CULT in the Catholic Community. Only idiots would join now which doesn't say much for the future of Maciel's soldiers.

[Justice]

Have the Legionaries of Christ admitted that they lied, cheated and manipulated innocent people for 70 years?

Have RC members apologized to anyone for their despicable behavior while defending all of these lies?

No, they haven't. So nothing of any significance has changed. You are still a group of wolves masquerading as Catholics.

[In RC But Not Of It]

This woman is an inspiration to other 3gf and RC members in general. I hope they are able to look to her example of true leadership.

JRC, you say that the visitator has told the 3gf that they are recognized by the Church as "consecrated". What were his actual words to them and what is your source of information concerning what he said?

[reid]

Back in January of this year Mr Fair and Ms Kingsland seemed (smugly imo) to expect that canon law would be modified to accommodate the reg “consecrated.” My thoughts then were these: (1) How could a fraudulent group founded by a false prophet be “ahead” of the Church regarding the “unique state of life” of the 3gf? (2) At the same time, however, I also harbored a dark thought that I might hear down the road, in eight years or so, something along the lines that the “unique state of life” of the 3gf is something the Church has always recognized and encouraged . . . carry on.

If JRC's comment [April 15, 12:04 PM] is accurate – man, was I ever wrong! Instead of waiting eight years, I'm having my dark thought confirmed in a matter of months.

Somebody please tell me that JRC's information is incorrect.

[JRC]

I have heard it from some consecrated women that were there. And it was also in Trastevere today by Atalaya // Abr 15, 2011 at 16:31 who is a very well informed person. I don't have the exact words.

@Joe, As you say the Church can, and has the authority to do so for people who belong to the Church.

[Dilbert]

My daughter years ago assured me that "everything we do is fully approved by the Vatican and the Pope". At the time (although she fully believed it) it was not really true; it was wishful thinking and deception from those in control. Now I am horrified to discover that the deception is rapidly becoming a reality. All they have to do now it seems is tweak the rule book.

[White Tree]

What is striking about Nelly's interview is how down-to-earth she is about her experiences. Her matter-of-fact manner makes me very, very sad for all the people who are still LC/RC believers. If she had included lots of "juicy" details, it would not have the same impact. Her style makes the cultish life inside the LC/RC all the more real.

The posts that are most enlightening for me are the ones that simply tell a first-hand story because the chasm that exists between the mind of LC/RC and the "outside" world becomes so apparent. Nelly says, "I had received information from outside," which led her to begin her own investigation. I wonder how she was able to receive that information, and I am so glad for her that she did!

[JPIIFAN]

When the revision of the Constitutions began, I did tell my Superiors that my biggest concern wasn't the actual alteration of the text - which is actually quite rich, spiritually speaking - but the alteration of the culture that had been created by the founder. This is the concern of many Legionaries, and as long as they continuously communicate these concerns to the higher Superiors, including Card. De Paolis, there will be a change. This change won't occur overnight, and it will take time, simply because that's the way things work in the Church. The renewal of the Church in the United States, after some big scandals, began in 2002, and just now we're starting to see the results and the fruits of the painful work carried out by many Bishops, Priests, Religious and Lay People. Ireland is just starting its process, and who knows how long that will take. IF the Holy Spirit inspired Fr Maciel with an authentic charism, and IF the Holy Spirit wishes to continue this work through future generations of Legionaries, then those who still believe in the fundamental goodness of the Legion and the Movement should sincerely pray that all members sift through the errors transmitted by the founder and certain cofounders, root them out, leave them aside, and make room for what the Holy Spirit is truly asking. Obviously, if you don't believe there's anything good in the Congregation, then you don't need to pray for them.

The Legion has formed the commission to reach out to victims, and they're beginning to reach out, as best, and as quickly as possible. I'm sure there are many victims who simply haven't spoken up, because they're afraid or ashamed, unfortunately. It's also important to keep in mind that the commission is only made up of a few priests, who are also juggling other responsibilities, so their time is limited. To ask every Legionary to start calling, writing and reaching out to victims is unrealistic, though, because it certainly takes a special grace to do this work; it's not easy! Furthermore, there are many Legionaries who sincerely believe in their calling and haven't victimized anyone. If there are Legionaries out there who are guilty of abuse, and simply haven't come forward, pray that the Holy Spirit give them the humility, courage and strength to admit to their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness.

Spiritual direction is being revised, especially by non-Legionary priests who form parts of different commissions. Internet access is limited, but those who wish to have more ample access, simply need to ask for it. This type of censorship, however, is not a bad thing, since it serves as a healthy form of protection. I have friends in Diocesan seminaries who wish they had the same system we do, when it comes to the Internet and other means of social communication. Correspondence is monitored, but this is being revised, and at the same time, all young men are informed of this before they actually join the Novitiate, so it never came to me as a surprise when I joined. Again, a certain amount of censorship is needed for a healthy living of the religious life.

The "home visit" issue is the one that is being handled immediately. Many Brothers and Priests are asking for longer visits, and I'm sure the boys at the Apostolic Schools will have more time with their families throughout the year. Nevertheless, it's not a black and white issue. The Legion could go to the other extreme, and a lot of members and a lot of fervor could be lost. St John Bosco, while writing up the Constitutions for the Salesians, wrote, "I have yet to meet a religious who has visited his home, and come back in a better state". What they're trying to find now is the right balance.

I was only aware of the debts the Legion has worldwide. They're selling different properties, closing down schools, handing over apostolates, precisely because they don't have the means to support them. Fundraising and administrative commissions have been formed to pay these huge debts off. Maybe they do have twenty billion dollars somewhere, but from what I saw, and from what I see, it's more likely that they're in debt. This is probably why they can't pay the victims immediately. I'm sure this is why they can't pay back the benefactors who have given so much...

Thanks for the names of former Legionaries. I know quite a bit that weren't listed, as well.

Lastly, a note to Theresa. Discerning a vocation is not a merely rational process; it involves the entire person. Pascal wrote that there are principles of the heart which the mind cannot understand, so the following of my vocation implies much more than just my thought process. Were my thoughts manipulated when I was invited to the Legion? Perhaps, but again, this was mostly due to what the LC's had learned from their founder. I had already been thinking about the vocation for 3 years before I met the Legion, and when i visited them for the first time, I did sense a profound peace and security that I hadn't sensed elsewhere. I knew that was where I belonged. But as I said before, these past couple of years allowed me to discover that I should have been given more time and space to personally decide to pursue my vocation, rather than being told that I've been called, and simply being pushed along as quickly as possible. I think the mere fact that I've discovered this shows that my mind has unraveled the process. Furthermore, I had extensive contact with a young man who was thinking of the vocation, and he was considering the Legion, and even though I invited him to visit the Novitiate, I never told him he was called, I never pressured him to believe that he was running out of time, precisely because I had learned from the mistakes my own recruiter made. But referring back to Pascal's theory on the principles of the heart: I did have that profound sense of peace when first visiting the Legion, and throughout my formation. But because I was always rushed, it's like I didn't have the time and space to rationally decide for myself that this was it. That's why I've taken a break: to step back, breathe a little, and personally decide to pursue what God is inspiring in my heart. I still believe in the Legion, and I still believe that God could be calling me to be a Legionary, but I want to pursue my vocation, not because a superior is telling me to, but because of my own certainty and desire.

This was a long one. God bless.

[Scipio's Buddy]

JRC, Have you read the book? Just curious. I know the author and what you say about the book sounds foreign to me.... Just wondering, you know?

[In RC But Not Of It]

JRC, you don't have the exact words? That figures.

With all due respect, any interpretation from the 3gf regarding verbal or private communications, assurances or affirmations, should be taken with a grain of salt. Those poor ladies are victims of the biggest game of telephone in the history of the Church.

I haven't read trastevere so I can't verify what was said there. BUT the logical problem with any so-called "assurances" from the Church about their consecrated status is fairly simple to understand: Yes, they are personally consecrated the way that any lay person desiring such can be consecrated. No, they are not canonically recognized as an association of consecrated persons. Therefore a reasonable thought is that whatever was actually said to them by the visitator could easily have been a pastoral comment which was not only taken out of context but was used to try to justify the canonical status of the 3gf and keep their rank and file from fleeing.

[Mercy]

JPIIFAN - Thank you for your posts. You are by yourself here, I appreciate your honesty and hearing your thought process as you slowly realized things weren't ok. I will be back for some more comments but need to get going. I will pray for you and your discernment. My simple mind believes that God will honor your generosity and take good care of you because you gave Him your life first. He may still keep it just for Himself but if not, He will guide you through family, friends, unexpected sources!! and hopefully an unbias spiritual director. Daily Mass and prayers and the rosary are so important during these times. God Bless you for coming here. I will pray for you as I do for my 3 children who came home last year and for the oldest who was in for 8 years and has been home for 3. We probably know each other. I know how difficult the transition is but one thing I learned through it all was how very much God loved me and that I would really never be alone. Again, God Bless you!

[JRC]

@Scipio's Buddy: I do have read the book. And is as I told you.

@In RC but Not Of It: As I told you it was not only from 3GF, it was also the version of one person that is really against the LC/RC now, and was rather upset for what Mons. said. But anyways it is up to you to believe or not.

[In RC But Not Of It]

JRC, if that person was THERE and heard the words him/herself and IF the words are an accurate understanding of the visitator's message, that of course should be believed. If it's 2nd or 3rd-hand, even by a well-informed individual, then that's quite another story. Sorry for being so suspecting but I've had my share of 3gf "spin" over the years ("consecrated" ladies who insisted to me that the Holy Father told them they need to grow in the wake of the MM scandal when it turned out that they actually heard this from superiors through Rode yada yada yada). The problem is that nothing out of a 3gf mouth can actually be trusted to be accurate - not that the lady is deliberately lying but more that she's been conditioned to hear certain things and to trust w/o question all communication that presumably comes from "The Church".

[mary ann]

Many Legion practices were rooted in old ways, but the reason for them was different and the manner of carrying them out was different - is different.

JPIIfan, beware of the Mormon fallacy: if there's a burning in your breast, that's proof of truth. This is used by many cults in one way or another....a normal emotional reaction to something desired or needed or true is objectified and made to be a proof of God's will.

As for the book, it will be hard for her, as it is for anyone, to disentnngle the Legion's deformities from the Church's ways that were deformed, and the nearly-true lies from the truth. The danger is that one is not aware of what the real truth is, so it is all tossed. I personally don't think anyone can do it without a guide, someone who knows the tradition in an authentic way. Those people are few and far between. Even the newbie Catholics so hot on traditional spirituality are seeing it in opposition, or merely verbally, or as technique. Anyway, I surely wish her well, and am very suspicious of those who try to dismiss what she says ahead of time. That's an old trick: "oh, we know that already, besides, it's outdated and she is not informed of the latest and probably had issues anyway."

[JRC]

@mary ann: All I was trying to say is that I expected much more of that book, and wanted to warn you about that. But take it as you want.

[In RC But Not Of It]

I will also add that I've been to a few RC planning meetings following the scandal at which "words of support and affirmation" by Cardinal This and Archbishop That were communicated to us. Nothing in writing, of course. The message was clear: You are valid, you are important, keep doing what you are doing. But who was this message really coming from - the princes of the Church, or the Legion of Christ? It's amazing how many (even those dissatisfied with the LC or RC) would trust that it's the former. They simply can't bring themselves to believe someone would lie about or misrepresent the words of a bishop or the Holy See. But no one even needs to lie - just inadvertently read into the message something different from what's actually there. "Dear Sisters, rest assured you are all consecrated members of the Body of Christ" can be interpreted in various ways, depending on one's level of understanding of Canon Law, the meaning of a personal consecration, the role and status of laity, and above all whether one has received an accurate and appropriate formation in the statutes of her institute. Sadly, the 3gf are deficient in many of those factors, leading to misunderstandings, confusion, and miscommunication (to say nothing of outright lies and spin by 3gf and LC superiors).

[mary ann]

I understand, JRC. And I can see how one can be disappointed - I was a bit disappointed in the interview. It is easy to forget how bad the simple things we know appear to someone the first time they see them. The good of the book may not be in juicy tidbits, but in the fact that it is written by someone still trailing the fairy dust a bit, and still with the respect of those inside....so maybe will have a hearing. A priest told me once that the best novice master was not the person advanced in holiness and wisdom, but the person just ahead of where the novices are on the trail. We get so far into the journey that we can't describe or relate to the early scenes, sometimes.

One important thing: she will have to, and will, eventually, find her anger. It has been bred out of her. But it is God's own plan for alerting us and energizing us. Beware the person who has no need to forgive anyone....that person is in complete denial of reality. Beware the person who never feels natural anger (or its repressed form, resentment)....that person has most likely had her personality severely repressed.

[Anon2020]

JPII Fan,

"The Legion could go to the other extreme, and a lot of members and a lot of fervor could be lost."

Fervor for what, pray tell? And members would be lost only because people would have access to the truth when they are with their families (usually -- unless the families themselves are reglegcorp).

Also - "...there are many Legionaries who sincerely believe in their calling and haven't victimized anyone."

Wouldn't be so quick to say that. All reglegcorp members (and even some non-members, such as ourselves) have victimized others to some extent, in that they have lent support to a fraudulent and sinful enterprise.

Your efforts are admirable, but you clearly have not broken free -- you are still equating reglegcorp to either the Church, or a true religious order. (Please don't sully Saint John Bosco's name by associating it with reglegcorp.)