The Efficiency Model of Evangelisation (TM)

Pete Vere dug through his archives and found an enlightening comment from March, 2010:

There is more to the LC RC controversy, the "Unique Methodology" supposedly developed by Father Maciel was almost an carbon copy of the Latter Days Saints Community Methodology. Having lived amongst Mormons for over 9 years, I recommend every RC member to read Judy Robinson's book "Out of Mormonism" to discover Fr. Maciel's methodology is not unique at all.

When I confronted the leaders of the RC Movement at our LC school in the suburbs of St. Louis, I was told at first, "How ridiculous, RC is completely Catholic, and what a ridiculous accusation! How could you possibly compare it to Mormonism?" Then I explained I was not saying the theology was like the Mormons, just the methodology. They replicated the Mormon methodology to the tee. A RC woman's lifestyle in the "movement" was so identical to a LDS member's lifestyle in their movement, I challenged a RC leader to read "Out of Mormonism", and then tell me what she thought. This woman was a staunch defender of Fr. Maciel, and everything RC. She called me back 3 days after reading "Out of Mormonism", you're right, she said, "We're not Catholic, we're Mormon!" She was horrified by the exact replication.

I confronted the Priest, Fr. Edward Hopkins, at first he denied any similarities, saying he had heard the accusations of cult-like coincidences, then he said," but the Mormons? Why would you ever say we were like the Mormons? I said I had lived amongst Mormons for over 9 years, visited the temple many times, and the similarities are more than uncanny, their methodologies are identical. Then he shut the door, and explained to me that the Mormons are the fastest growing church in Mexico, so Fr. Maciel mimicked the methodology to stop the hemorrhaging from the Catholic church to the Mormons, and said they were taking what was good from the Mormon Methodology, and leaving the bad, like it says to do in the Bible." That was when I left, I find nothing redeeming from the Mormons.

Mormons are encouraged to do what the call "organized shunning" to punish church members who disagree with Church leadership. Organized shunning is for the erring church member's own good they say. The organizational structure is almost identical, Fr. Edward would not have denied the similarities at first if he had not known I had so much familiarity with the LDS movement, then making excuses for it made me think I am not the first person to see the correlations. I was soon shunned for speaking the truth, even thought Father the similarities were glaringly obvious to anyone who ever spend time with LDS movement members.

The similarities are so many, I highly recommend RC members read "Out of Mormonism" by Judy Robertson, the irony was that the women who accused me of making a ridiculous claim was so outraged that she had been fooled by Fr. Maciel that he had come up with this "Unique Methodology", he had claimed credit for devising a system that has been in play within the LDS movement for over 100 years. She seemed to be able to believe the pedophilia claims were false, but now after reading "Out of Mormonism" she could not longer believe the "Unique Methodology" was original, as we have all learned his supposed
"original" writings were also plagiarized. So, nothing was unique, or original, or honest it seems.

I left because I felt an enormous fraud was being enacting on the unsuspecting members of this RC movement, and their own blind loyalty was perpetuating it. I also felt uncomfortable when I was told that Father Maciel asked that his devotees not begin efforts toward his canonization till at least 30 years after his death. What saint would even propose that he would be considered for sainthood? One unifying characteristic of saints was their profound humility, Fr. Maciel seemed to lack humility entirely. Well as the old saying goes "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool, all the people all of the time."

The occasion was a recent post concerning Mormonism, specifically the scam concerning its foundations, which occasioned a glib response, dismissing the revelation as irrelevant (reminding me of LC responses to all revelations). But, if you take this story (which sounds plausible) and add to it another, you'll find a more curious mix.

I was with Jose Barba and Juan Vaca a few years back, and they were around at the inception of Regnum Christi. They said that MM simply reached over into Opus dei to take its methodology for prayer, and those became our "commitments" daily/weekly/monthly/yearly. I can attest to their total similarity.

Then when you add the recent expenditure, you'll see the "charism" consists of:

• Mormon psychology;
• Opus dei discipline;
• Business-speak definitions.

Voila -- You have a "unique" Catholic Movement that will save the Church!

ADDENDUM: And back to the ubiquitous mention of "fruit," remember that borrowing/plagiarising methods that work in other settings helps get a jump on those numbers (that the Legion's supporters find so compelling) seems to short-circuit the Holy Spirit. Who needs a divine mandate if MBA's and cults can combine to create a dynamic work of God?

Comments

[Bigtex]

And of course I was told in a formation talk in Rhode Island that Maciel shaped the movement around the principles of communism. He was so shrewd, I was told, to use the enemy's own weapons against him.

[It's the Duplicity, Stupid]

They used to claim that MM based the coworker program (now renamed something like "Mission Corps") on that of the Mormon missionaries.

[Ohh]

You have got to give the old boy credit. He may have had no discernable religious faith but he sure knew how to run a con.

I wonder if there is somebody out there who is studying maciel and thinking, "I could do that! As long as I don't do the kids I can get away with it and have everyone revere me as a "living saint." UGG!

[Laurettas]

The Legion's greatest charism:
Plagiarizing.

[Jeannette]

Laurettas,
YOU FOUND THE CHARISM!!111!!!eleventy!!!

[-9 years of Lies]

Maciel was a genius. Evil- for sure. But a genius. Up there, in terms of influence and power- with people like Hitler, Rasputin, Alinsky, Marx.

And that is no hyperbole.

Don't underestimate Maciel- undoing his damage is not an easy task.

You don't dupe pius Popes, savvy billionaires and tens of thousands of people without being a genius. Evil Genius. But genius.

He should be studied.

[giselle]

All the more reason the Legion should be disbanded, because such a genius would booby-trap the group in ways that the best of reformers couldn't see. Better to dump the poison down the drain, and to imbibe from the best of what the Church has to offer.

[Pete Vere]

Genevieve:

You forgot to include "Harlequin Romance" marketing in your formula.

[Jeannette]

Ooh, Pete's right; there's a lot from the "heaving bosom-throbbing manhood" school of literature in the Legion's methodology

[Dingledore]

Les Mis

[Laurettas]

9yol,
I agree about Maciel and that is why I don't pass judgment on de Paolis at this point. I hold to the possibility that maybe he is quite intelligent as well and is quietly gaining knowledge about what is going on until he has enough info to go in for the kill, so to speak. In order to do this, he would have to be perceived as either an ally or inept.

[Laurettas]

Thanks, Jeannette! It was the only conclusion I could come to after all that everyone has been saying!

[Dilbert]

I had understood that MM's role model was Adolph Hitler. He might have added a few measures of Naziism into his recipe for the ultimate Catholic cult.

[jdamelio]

One of the clearest signs of Naziism is the immaculate, clean cut and cookie cutter appearance of the soldiers. Parted hair, shined shoes, double breasted, well spoken, good looking bunch they are. They all even have the same intonations... Even our then 12 year-old son picked up on that one.

[Tom]

Ok, I said would I would take a break, but below are extracts from Nuzzi’s new book, that give new insights into Card DePaolis tormented (an ultimately pro unreformed LC) thinking

…and the OD police calls these leaks “criminal”, want to shut them down , these leaks are the best thing that has happened to the church in years. More please!

http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/6bc5ee9e737adc876bed38b8163a0872

[giselle]

I've just translated it, and will post tomorrow, Tom. Go enjoy your day :-)

[Tom]

Cheers :)

[The Monk]

As far as I recall, Barba left the Legion long before RC started (I refer to the reality of the actual foundation and not historic revisionism.)

When I heard Maciel describe what he wanted the LC to be and how he envisioned the RC, I never heard mention of the Mormons. I doubt very much that during the time I knew him (1962 - 1982) that the Mormons were on his radar.

He did talk a lot about the Opus Dei. He was quite critical of some of their approach. He did seem to feel rivalry with Msgr. Escriva and he was always quite anxious to beat them at their game. No doubt he tried to "perfect" some of their methods. Their initial strength was in Spain while he concentrated on Mexico.

Maciel was always fascinated with the success of young communists in Latin America and their commitment to their objectives. He quite often suggested we had much to learn from their organization - but most of all from their commitment. He thought Catholic youth, in Latin America, were not as committed to their faith as they needed to be, and thus the Church was losing ground.

Corporate approach: He always wanted to have a group of highly organized, motivated, committed, "professional" priests who would be able to work from the top of the pyramid. I think he thought the bottom of the pyramid was covered; he claimed that with his small group he could get more done for the Church by leveraging the power and money at the top. That's how with so few LC he was able to build the Cumbres, Irish Institutes, the seminaries, and the Anahuac University. Those first institutions were his building blocks to gain more support for subsequent efforts. He was very anxious to start Mano Amiga and the Alpha Omega family centers and drove us hard to try and make this happen.

He claimed to want priests who could deal with the highest level of professionals and business people. Don't forget Mexico had a history, especially after the Cristero revolution of poorly prepared priests. As soon as he could he started the mission work in Quintana Roo. This was as much a PR exercise as anything, in terms of the timing, to show that LC did not work exclusively with millionaires.

Despite all that we know know about the "private life" of Maciel he did manage to get a lot of "good" done in a relatively short period of time through the efforts of his early supporters, LCs, and, subsequently, the RC.

In hindsight, we can find fault with everything he did and we should. He used and manipulated good people for his own selfish motives, as did some of his followers. However, LC and RC did accomplish great good and they did it for God, not for Maciel. I think that is something we forget too easily. Talk to a random sampling of the LCs "missionary" priests, for example, and you'll quickly realize that most had their priorities straight. Maciel was by no means their prime motivator.

Relative to the "good" that may or not have been achieved by well-intentioned LCs and RCs, the following link provides an interesting overview which, I suggest, can bring some "balance" to the discussion of what good a seriously flawed organization has managed to achieve:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/seccion.phtml?se=239

[giselle]

I take it back, Tom. We'll discuss now here:

http://www.life-after-rc.com/2012/05/milenio-vatileaks-and-the-legion.html

[Pete Vere]

Monk, I think this is another one of those issues which Fr. Changobeer dealt with prophetically when the scandal first broke: http://changobeer.blogspot.ca/2009/07/leave-bathwater-take-cannoli.html

Again, this is not to deny that LC may have fulfilled some good, whether intentionally or by accident, but rather to point out that any good alleged to have been carried out by LC must be scrutinized carefully to insure that indeed it was good, and that its purpose was not to mask some evil.

Thus every alleged good carried out in the name of LC is at least open to question.

This is not to deny that many rank-in-file RC may have carried out these works in good faith, or with good intent. An example would be those who defended MM against his accusers, believing MM to be innocent. However, as soon as MM's guilt was obvious there was a duty to apologize to and make restitution to his victims.

[The Monk]

Pete,

"Thus every alleged good carried out in the name of LC is at least open to question."

Fair enough - that sounds to me like you agree that "good" has been achieved despite MM. If you consider Totus Tuus to be "good" that's another by-product of good people who were initially attracted by the Lord to the LC/RC and who will continue to do good.

This theme seems to be pertinent to the latest thread on Vatican leaks... so if you have further questions I'll watch for them there.

[HonestyPlease]

Monk,

You haven't been sneaking Kool-Aid, have you?

'Fess up.

[Pete Vere]

"Fair enough - that sounds to me like you agree that 'good' has been achieved despite MM."

"Agree" would be too strong a word. Let's say I'm open to the possibility, but far from convinced. I certainly don't consider your proposition undeniable.

[charlotte]

Monk, it sounds as if this so-called "good" only happened because MM started LC/RC. How do you know that he didn't post-pone "good fruits" from the various people in LC/RC? For example Malen Oriole may have been moved earlier in her life to form Totus Tuus.

[Don]

I love it Charlotte! According to LC logic, Malen Oriole was actually called from all eternity to form Totus Tuus.