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This poor fellow is in complete denial, making up in his imagination what he wants to have.

"... yes, I know that this river, as do all rivers, comes in the end to the sea, and I will ride it through rough and narrow..." This tragic sentiment is the voice of an untried youth. His journey up the river reminds me of a joke-inspiration poster that depicted a fine, fat salmon jumping into the maw of a grizzly bear; the caption read: "Sometimes the journey of 1,000 miles ends very, very badly." Here's a similar video from the BBC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NcJ_63z-mA

There is NOTHING in the Legion that is ignatian. They tell people they are doing the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius but they are NOT and NEVER have. If you have made retreats or been given 'spiritual exercises' by the Legion or anyone connected with the Legion please be very clear that you nor they have EVER made anything near the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius

It's more like "Ignatian Lite" IMO.

no. it's not ignatian at all... not even lite. The Legion misappropriated and twisted everything that might be considered ignatian [of which none of them ever have had any understanding]...good grief imagine that!! LC/RC misappropriating and twisting something.

What were the specific things he dreamed about having in an order he would join? Abuse? Pedophelia? Fraud? Lies?
A founder "devoid of religious sentiment?

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

"...but it is not a case of changing essentials, but rather of pruning back unruly shoots so that the original may be seen in all its beauty."

I ask: What is "the original" and "all its beauty"?
The original is Maciel and he was evil to the core. There are nice, naive people in the Legion, but they are not the original. That was Maciel and what he created.
Is the reason he can not see this is because he has been spoon fed a warped view of what's been going on the past 5 years?

This is very sad. And also very telling of the LC mentality.

I know where the river will take you, Brother Dominic. It will take you wherever Fr. Alvaro thinks you will benefit him the most. Is that raising money? Is it recruiting kids? And they will tell you it's God's will and your mission... and tell you to persevere or fear eternal damnation.

So go ahead and jump. But remember- the current is so fast that you don't even know you are drowning. You'll end up in the ocean, no doubt. But you won't be in one piece.

None of us are. But we are getting there...

Why are there some RC women who will do anything for them? What have they been promised? Are they so brainwashed that they don't understand right from wrong? Is it because they were made into team leaders? Or is it because they have no other life or friends?

Notice his title at the bottom of the article: "Administrator of the Centre of Apostolate in Dublin, Ireland". Everybody wants to be somebody. Perhaps it is time to do another novena for those who will be professing final vows, that their minds and hearts will be open to the truth. Every time we do, great things happen.

Words fail me. It might as well read: Our Beloved Father Stalin has given us his dearest friend Beria and all his helpers to make sure we are safe on the right path.

They will always return to their "charism" which was the point of the Vatican appointee. Bring LC-RC back to their "mission and meaning" - the original reason for being. You can't believe that stuff without buying into the idea of "God's will" for the foundation. If you go back far enough into the time range of Legion mythology, you get a "Maciel that is inspired by God" and apparently with purity of intention since Card DePaolis has an interest in going backwards instead of choping down the tree with the rotten fruit.

Strange to see the direction this is going, but not surprising. The Vatican appointee seems incapable of buying into the idea that the Legion is a fraud and a scam and all these LC RC worker bees are wasting their time and lives.

what seemed to catch my eye is what caught hours little light.. "prune away the unruly branches," and get back to the originals. What are the originals? Br Dominic: "WHAT ARE THE ORIGINALS????" Montezuma with an already messed up and sicko Maciel, getting kicked out, not because, the foundation of the LC wasn't meant to happen yet, but he was already into things that ... well, we'll keep this family friendly.. Or the originals of Comillas and Cobreces.. uh, Br Dominic, why don't we have Fr Alfredo Torres tell us a bit about that and Fr Maciel's behavior and being booted from Comillas... always from some "persecuted Christian' reason.. but know Torres has been silenced just like Moreno later on. And it goes on... Br Dominic must be Jim Jones long lost grand son! There is no original charism to get back to. Maciel is the charism.. but the kool aid is definitely better than ever.

It seems to me that if we prune away all the Macielist deadwood to get the original 'seed', we get Baptism and, for the priests, Ordination.

The key identity that these men and women need to rediscover is the fact that God has called them to a vocation in the CHURCH, not in Maciel's group.

Which means some of our regular commentators here have already arrived at the natural end of any attempt to prune away the LC deadwood....

Maybe you guys had weed wackers and those still in have slightly sharpened popsicle sticks?

I just don't understand what's so mysterious about the process.

Rules - from Maciel
Mission- (Evangelize the important, use people!) - from Maciel.
'Discernment' and weirdo-non-igantian spirituality - from Maciel.

Though, I think among some of the younger members, a "Maciel had his faults, but everyone has faults, no founder is perfect" mode has taken over.

Frankly, I find this the most depressing and demonic of all. The Legion has totally corrupted these boys' natural horror of dirty old lying, cheating sodomites.

Maciel is the sort of character that normally fills teen boys with disgust. What boy would consider it a mark of pride to belong to a group founded by one such as this, to follow the methods set out by a guy like this?

But they follow him with pride. He's managed to completely emascualte the hot-headed, swift-justice-obsessed, fires of youth.

Not that I approve of lynch mobs or anything, but youth is supposed to be indignant and with a keen sense of justice. He's cut that off.

It makes me cry, because I know they weren't like this before.

Fulton Sheen, pray for them!

When you think about his language, Br. Dominic betrays the fact that he doesn't have any of the facts. He is just regurgitating abstractions he has been handed. He is just retailing slogans. There is no there there, even in his description of his dream Order. He, in other words, is STILL UNAWARE OF ALL THE INFORMATION. He has been spoonfed some, along with antidotes to its effects, and he is happy with that. Really really sad, since he is in charge of others. What can he possibly be passing on? How can people reach him?

Which brings up something else. It is hard for people to questions something when they have invested time and life and identity in it - very hard. But sometimes it is even harder when they have invested money. When a supporter of the Legion, a member of an elite is some form or another, has given a bunch of money, that person, who is accustomed to think of himself or herself as brilliant and successful, is not going to readily say "I'm a fool, a mark, I've been conned."

We are up against some of the biggest defenses in human psychology, in those who are still in LC and RC.

Over and over, we read testimonials of people whose correct internal compass allowed them to sense and then see and then act on: THE TRUTH. It takes that correct internal compass, that seeking for truth. Those who are still blinded have something else going on instead of, or in addition to, truth seeking. Bombarding them with fact can make them raise their defenses even higher and stronger (it happens with the post-abortive, where seeing a graphic poster can cause anger and increased determiation to abort).

So we are left with a question: how do we convey the truth in a way that they can hear it? It takes more than kindness. It takes some taking some of their premises and asking questions: For example: What are you doing in LC RC? Are you building the Kingdom? In concrete reality, what is it that you do most of the time? How do you feel about it? What effects is it having on you and on those you are capturing? Have you talked with God about this? Have you asked Him, directly, sincerely, for light on your mission?

Asking them to ask God directly might highlight this fact that is so appalling: they are never given prayer or meditation time without have topics and points laid out. Maciel controlled their prayer life! They may never have developed an ability to think and pray. That may be why they are so convincing to dePaolis, who reads their one-dimensional roboticness as sincerity. But the lack of subjectivity is not sincerity. Integrity of subjectivity is sincerity. There are those at the top who lack that integrity, obviously, but others, from youth, have been deprived of developing it. They are hothouse plants trained to grow on trellises of thought carefully arranged and circumscribed. It will hurt to get rearranged - many branches, grown in good faith, will have to be pruned. But God is gentle, and will help if asked. But they ask God to help them do what the rule says, instead of asking God to be God.

Mary Ann, That's exactly the heart of the problem.

Their superiors put themselves in God's place. What's the point of prayer when your superior apparently has God's will under lock and key?

Berg:

"The Legionary seminarian is erroneously led to foster a hyper-focusing on internal "dependence" on the superior for virtually every one of his intentional acts (either explicitly or in virtue of some norm or permission received, or presumed or habitual permissions). This is not in harmony with the tradition of religious life in the Church, nor is it theologically or psychologically sound. It entails rather an unhealthy suppression of personal freedom (which is a far cry from the reasoned, discerned and freely exercised oblation of mind and will that the Holy Spirit genuinely inspires in the institution of religious obedience) and occasions unholy and unhealthy restrictions on personal conscience."

And it sounds like the kids in the apostolic schools, girls' school, and even EYCD go through the same process of superior-focused spirituality... right at the age when kids naturally start developing a relationship with God that's less dependent on their parents....

No wonder the Legion coils seem nearly impossible to escape for the people who joined as kids.... Legion IS God, in their minds.

After all, it's a 'very special vocation' and if these boys and girls are allowed to develop normally, in age appropriate ways, it will be lost.

Ugh. More prayer. Because the other option is total despair for these young souls.

Actually, given the LCs association with Christopher West, this is somewhere he could be really helpful--

He also grew up in a cult-- He's also a trusted theologian for these kids. If he put together something on escaping cults to build your own relationship with God.....


(I'm not a big fan of his take on TOB, and I think he draws too sharp a distinction between PJ2 and what came before, in part because I think his childhood experience of Catholicism (in a cult) DID shape how he was taught about the body, but what he was taught wasn't CATHOLIC.)

FIDEISM. That is in essence why LCs stay. Here it is in Br Dominic's words; "But the fundamental and decisive factor that allows me to see right down to the bottom of the pool is the loving guidance of the Holy Father who has assured us of the validity of our path and accompanies us in the person of his Delegate, Cardinal De Paulis. If we are in the hands of the Church, what more could we ask?"

Much of what allowed abuses in the legion was FIDEISM. It is approved by the Pope = infallibility.

Some call it blind faith. But even blind faith implies not seeing all the reasons, but you are at least reasoning.

FIDEISM is a separation of faith from reason. In the case of the legion, maybe reason is not separated, but it is at least stiffeled willingly, if not buried in lies.

I beg to differ with occasional tourist on Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius. And mind you, I am not generalizing. I did the 30 days of Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius, the last time I did exercises in the Legion. It was the first exercises preached after Maciel's double/triple/quadruple... life was exposed. They were mercelessly stripped of almost all LC "spirituality" and focused on the writings of Ignatius himself.
For me they were fantastic, and my decision to leave the Legion solidified.
My point is, the exercises depend on who directs them. In my opinion, and you can differ with my opinion, Fr José Antonio Izquierdo did a fine job. At least the fruits in my life were satisfactory.

Deirdre, you hit the nail on the head. The Legion is not only God for them, but also their connection to the Church. When speaking with a current RC member about the reform, I told her that I disagree with how the Vatican is handling all this, and just because De Paolis says whatever he says in a letter, that doesn't make it Catholic doctrine. She thought I had gone completely off my rocker...I mean, who am I to say I know more than the Pope. Well, I countered, JPII called MM an "efficacious guide for youth," and we know that was wrong...so there is a precedence in knowing that the Church can be wrong. She concluded that even though she knows the Church can be wrong, she is better off trusting the Church and not going off on her own thinking she knows better than the Church. So, the problem is that these people have been completely stripped of their ability to think for themselves, and even worse, they have lost all contact with their internal forum. They can't even take a personal decision regarding their own vocation without appealing to some letter written by a cardinal. This is not Catholic.

Thought this blog post on truth, justice and reality had some great points -

http://www.thepersonalistproject.org/comments/justice_and_truth

"Elsewhere, and throughout his body of personalist work, Wojtyla/JP II, makes clear that the post-eden master/slave tension that afflicts all our relations is alleviated by truth. Josef Pieper, in his classic Leisure the Basis of Culture, as well as his Abuse of Language; Abuse of Power, elaborates the same principle. Personal subjectivity unfolds in free relation to the objective world. So do interpersonal relations. Right relations between persons come from right relation to Reality."

....."We were recalling the story of the two women who came before Solomon, each claiming the baby was hers. Onlookers had no way of knowing who was telling the truth and who was lying. How did Solomon find out? In his great wisdom he recognized: The one who was more interested in the baby was obviously the real mother. The one who was wanted an "equitable solution" was the fraud.

Let the baby stand for truth. A person who "makes justice their aim" wants the truth. A person who pushes for reconciliation apart from truth and justice is "dressing a wound as if it were not serious.""

Right, observer. And how is it that the highest people in the Vatican don't recognize that? What kind of people are they?

"If we are in the hands of the Church, what more could we ask?"

Which Church are we talking about? The institution of the Catholic Church? Because I guarantee you there are plenty of people who put themselves into the hands of the institution over the past two thousand years (just think of all those women in spain who trusted the Church to help them in their time of need and instead had their babies stolen and sold off to "deserving" (i.e. devout and wealthy) parents without their knowledge, as one small example)and could ask for a hell of a lot after all the suffering they went through as a result of trusting the Church. Or how about all those kids on the reservations who were entrusted to the "Church" only to be abused by a string of predators along the way?

On a much smaller level, I trusted the Great John Paul himself when he showed such love for the Legion and entrusted my children to it. Boy was I stupid. Unfortunately, it is my children who are paying the price for my spiritual retardation in putting my trust in the opinions of men running the institution.

Never again will I so stupidly believe that putting myself in the hands of the "Church" is some sort of guarantee of any kind of safety or goodness at all.

The harsh reality is that the Legion is in the hands of MEN in the Church, and we already know just how corrupt and/or incompetent such men often are.

Hell will have to be an iceberg before I believe that the real Church, the actual living body of Christ, wants to see an organization founded by a child sodomist and liar of the first order survive at all cost.

Because the cost has been very, very high for all the many victims who lie on the side of the road maimed and bleeding in its wake.

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