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August 16, 2012 | Permalink
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I need to watch this over again and take notes before I comment except to say I got tired of hearing "it takes time" (reform) and "we've got a lot of people to bring to Christ".
Re: Burtka and Ryan - what's the story on these two?
August 16, 2012 at 05:22 PM
must admit, didn't watch the hole video but my initial reaction is from the beginning..entrance of the LC priests. Do any of these people look happy or fully of the joy of Christ? oh sure, they look 'holy' whatever the heck that is to them but none have a face of hope.
occasional tourist |
August 16, 2012 at 05:35 PM
There are many "talking points" here which are just as controlled as those of the GOP and the DNC in full campaign mode.
One of them is the hour of meditation example. I have heard this example used by many LCs who comment on the "renewal".
Another is to introduce the "renewal" as a personal favor of the pope by his having appointed a representative.
Treating the opening of mail as a "throw away" is another.
They have been calling some of their methods and rules "historically" practiced by others. But this misses the point that 1. others did not use these the way Maciel did and 2. the mere fact that others may have done right or wrong is no excuse for you doing it (mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos-- which, admittedly, is a bit more harsh than the translation in English)
I have heard of NO actions whatsoever of the "Reconciliation Commission" in regard to any individual. If anyone knows of an example (any example--even of an instance "satisfactorily" dealt with), please bring it to light here.
Analogies used badly. That is the LC specialty. This huge mess and problem of the LC is in no way comparable to a highway construction inconvenience.
Finally, time is never secondary when people continue to be subjected to Maciel's legacy. The depth of abuse and manipulation calls for much faster action, don't ya think, my dear "Fathers"?
August 16, 2012 at 05:57 PM
In best legionary tradition, saying little in a lot of words.
August 16, 2012 at 05:58 PM
The amount of pressure coming from the inside: many Legion priests leaving because this reform is going to slow, has finally gotten the PTB to say something!
In answer to les, both these jokers are members of the general council of the Legion.
August 16, 2012 at 06:05 PM
Remember-Look at the good! Look at the good!
August 16, 2012 at 06:07 PM
This is so rich! I'm so glad they didn't keep this one behind the paywall!
I can't believe people would find these guys credible in any sense , but the video does follow a hypnotic rhythm and has a repeated messaging method.
You are supposed to walk away blaming the cardinal, the church, and even God for the delay in the reform. Burtka does the blaming. He even blames God at one point, saying it is all in God's hands and almost blaming God for not delivering a hand written note for what they should do.
One of the clever things they do is put a busty consecrated on the screen to show that talking to women like that takes too long because the Cardinal needs a translator and we all know women who dress like that talk too much. Subtle and very effective. That scene being couched in Ryan's droning is very effective.
Burtka says that the LC is a movement of RC. I didn't think that was a public consumption message. They were so focused of the hypnotic beat sheet about delays that they must have missed that slip of the tongue. After all, rich guys don't run the LC. The LC run the rich guys right?
Burtka blaming the consecrated for a possible delay in 2014 is hilarious. He really thinks we are stupid.
The most important thing in the entire video is Burtka's arrogant claim that God hasn't told them how to reform. What an ass. For one thing, get rid of the lies, fraud, and polished PR posted on youtube. Tell the truth about Maciel and purge his memory from everything.
Burtka betrays that he doesn't care to reform when he says that they haven't even started looking into themselves to see what needs to change. That's the best part of the whole video because it tells the truth we know. The LC don't care to change. Burtka even tells us why. He says they have too much work to do. So we are supposed to feel sorry for them because they can't stop doing charity long enough to purge themselves of sin.
And people defend them as being good. No wonder he's so sure everyone watching this video is stupid.
August 16, 2012 at 07:30 PM
They still can't tell us what their charism is even though it is "clearly approved by the church". The progress report has been the same now for about 5 years. The entrance of priest could be teh beginning of a zombie movie - there is no life in their eyes, no piety, just one foot in front of the other. Alvaro looks like a deer in the headlights. There is no excitement or enthusiasm. The external forms have been guarded but the substance has been emptied and alas they only speak about forms - schedules, "getting things right", they look like a person with a bomb strapped to their chest and don't know exactly when it will go off. I guess resignation, sadness and unhappiness would summarize what I see in the video...not a great promotion at all.
I don't know what holds the whole thing together at this point which is why they focus on "brotherhood" instead of their strong ecclesial leadership. No more marching soldiers in a row, but they act like robots with no emotion.
They seem lost in their own thoughts and their dead end meanderings.
They are really afraid of the general chapter b/c as soon as they actually try to define what they are, those who don't want that will leave.
Little Light |
August 16, 2012 at 10:50 PM
To answer les' question:
Fr Ryan: Professor in Rome (I don't know if he is currently teaching, but it used to be social ethics and pastoral theology.)
Fr Burtka: Novice Instructor in Germany, TD in United States, Novice Instructor in Cheshire, currently Rector of Section A in Rome.
I know both of these priests, especially Fr Joseph. I used to go to him to vent about the situation of the Legion when I felt like my own own rector was giving me spin. He and I did not always agree but I never felt like he was bullshitting me.
What I always liked about these two, as opposed to some other higher-up LCs I've known, is that they tend to wear their emotions on their sleeves, even the frowned upon ones: sad frustrated, overwhelmed, etc... they are who they are.
So I would not assume you are getting a conscious attempt at manipulation, they are probably saying more or less what they feel.
Another ex-LC |
August 16, 2012 at 11:01 PM
Both of them were appointed in the General Chapter of 2005, that is, by Maciel himself, like Alvaro. Both swore the oath of fidelity to Maciel like all memembers of the GC did. See what can you expect other than politically correct statements? They are only stressing formal aspects of the reform, nothing substantial, because nothing substantial is happening
Scipio Africanus |
August 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Right off the bat, a lie. The vow of charity was not what the announcer said, at all.
Mary Ann |
August 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM
No mention of all of the corporate fundraising they do. They are a corporation, no different from a bank except this global bank doesn't pay its employees. There are no health benefits either after they've driven you to the ground with all of their mind games. Their mission? To break souls so one becomes dependent on them. They are a cult hiding behind Roman collars and they rob Peter to pay...themselves!
August 17, 2012 at 12:50 AM
So, Ryan and Burtka, why are so many priest STILL leaving?
August 17, 2012 at 08:22 AM
The voice is Fr. Jonathan Morris I am pretty sure. Anybody else pick up on that?
I am sure he left the LC. He was Marcial's personal waiter for a while in rome.
August 17, 2012 at 08:27 AM
So why do Church authorities - given all the insightful comments on this thread, and all the comments on all the other threads over all the years(!) - continue this farce of a "reform?" So as not to have to admit to the truth - and thus "scandalize" the laity - that due to Vatican negligence, complicity, and duplicity, many with good intentions were conned into joining a cult begun by a sexual predator? To keep the Vatican closet closed and locked on its pile of skeletons? The legion never intended to reform. The Vatican plays along. There is no reform of substance, never was, never will be.
August 17, 2012 at 08:32 AM
Jose: Are you implying that ex-LCs remain faithful to the cult and act as undercover Legionaries, still helping their cause and bringing them connections? If that is the case, does anyone know if this is the case with Terry Polakovic, Director of Endow who seems to be on school boards in Colorado and Michigan??!! The Legion is undeniably clever if this is how they operate, clandestinely. Figures!
August 17, 2012 at 09:43 AM
Not to be a thread-hyjacker, but someone who IS doing something about this mess is in great need of commentary and assessment of the present LC/RC scene (sports, camps and clubs, schools, etc.) -- as it now is morphing. If anyone would care to comment on the internet proliferation of "fronts," it would be appreciated; here's the RC link: http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/enlaces/index.phtml
and here's the LC one: http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/seccion.phtml?se=239
Thanks so much!
August 17, 2012 at 09:53 AM
BTW, does anyone know who Jennifer Ristine is? She's the voice of Theology of the Body, as it has entwined itself with LCRC:http://rcresourcecenter.org/audioandvideodownloads.aspx And check out all sorts of TKC spirit gear, here:
August 17, 2012 at 10:02 AM
What is shocking is that “reconciliation” is dead last on the list, as if just in passing.
Indeed nothing has happened after 12 years.
12 frigging years, is how long this debacle has been on the curia's radar screen, by the Pope’s own admission.
The PenState scandal has not even started, and now it has been dealt with, people were helped to account.
Here, nothing, crickets.
John the Baptist put repentance first, and he meant true repentance.
He did not mean fake “I am so sorry that you feel hurt for the real physical abuse you got by our founder and the system he created, that now gives us the charism to do, what we tell you, does “so much good””.
So now Bible teachings go out the window, and in comes the “new tradition”?
Is this what “new evangelization” is all about?
It’s no longer a debate about sola scriptura.
Now is it new pseudo-orthodox “tradition”, contra scriptura, all because of $$, and with curia blessing?
And now, our kids are to sit down, shut up and listen to their “missionaries” preach this “new evangelization”?
Without true repentance, there is no evangelization, it is in the Bible, stupid, and its is as clear as night and day.
There is no need for deep theological clerical interpretation of that.
Any one can read it and understand it.
Yet, according to LCRC supporter/member “Philip” in First Things, that is not an issue for them, as is also evident in this propaganda piece.
And all this with the gracious blessing of the delegate…
Plus didn’t he smirk when talking about "correspondence"?
August 17, 2012 at 10:06 AM
Wow, that reconciliation commission has been sooooooo successful... Would you say so, Aaron? And as many of you have said they only begin to address it when their backs are placed against the wall like what the AP press has done recently or in Chile. What a bunch of b.s., Fr Burtka. Please find in any one of Corcuera's or anyone else's scripted argument of saying that "we lied" many legionaries knew for years and they lied... Corcuera knew about Williams for 7 years and he needs to say "I flat out lied to you and that is a serious sin, in many ways so much more than Williams sin." (do we all remember the sin of Saul when he was told by Samuel to kill all of the certain tribes people/animals and Saul saved the best for himself, and ONLY WHEN SAUL WAS CONFRONTED, did he admit the truth). Changing details and some aspects of government does not truly reform a congregation. Recently I have watched a newer version of Francis and Claire and the lack of the Legion's complete honesty or the word that they use wrongly "entrega" (self-giving), they need to watch Francis. I am thinking of that famous scene where he strips himself of everything. I never really understood that in the spiritual/motivational sense until watching this video. The Legion has not done that and as Sick and Tired has referred to, this is only a reflection of so much of the vatican. The Vatican is still so controlled by groups like the Legion and Kiko arguello of the neo-cats. I don't know who it can be, but dear Lord, we truly need "a St Francis" to bring back the Gospel!
happy in diocesan life |
August 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM
...people were held to account. sorry
August 17, 2012 at 10:27 AM
Burtka said they stopped having superiors act as SDs, and had to throw in the comment that the Salesians did it too! But he didn't say what was problematic with that practice. He also talked about opening mail, again noted other congregations did it too! But did not admit to the motives specific to the Legion in continuing that practice. To say "we don't do it anymore" doesn't address why they did it in the first place.
The Reconciliation Commission falls way short of being effective. He said it was to help anyone who felt harmed by the founder. One, who has heard of any form of satisfactory redress to victims? And two, to only address the harm to those affected by MM ignores the masses of ex members who were harmed in multiple ways - by 2nd generation abuses, by LegReg methodology, by whisper campaigns, by broken confidences, by being sucked into the Legion or 3gf life only to be kicked out and abandoned for "not having a vocation", by misuse of donations, good Lord, I could go on. What are they doing to reconcile those abuses?
IMO they plan to plod along and do nothing for MM's victims either, just outwait those old men until they die, with no remedy to their years of suffering or for calling them liars.
Nothing changes with these clowns. And the faithful RCLCs just eat it up.
August 17, 2012 at 10:28 AM
“THE LEGION OF CHRIST IS THE CHARISM” Fr Micheal Ryan.
There you have it. The charism has been defined. The charism of the Legion of Christ is the Legion of Christ.
For a better understanding, ask Bill Clinton. It depends what your definition of “Is” is.
Fr JOhn |
August 17, 2012 at 10:31 AM
Just a comment for Starwood. You say legionaries are leaving because the process is so slow. I beg to differ. Most legionaries who have left did so because they believe the process is on the wrong track.
Fr John |
August 17, 2012 at 10:45 AM
I can't get over the look in Fr Joseph Burtka's eyes. That's not the Joe Burtka I knew in candidacy, novitiate and further on. He's sad and tired, somewhat drained. There are legionaries in my city. I bump into them at clergy meetings and the like. They too have the same look - deer in the headlights.
It's sad to see. I hate to see them like that. The fire has gone out, but Fr Burtka keeps saying he is happy in the legion.
I was like that for so long. On the phone with Mom I would tell her how happy I was. She knew I wasn't, but would pump me up: "You sound good".
Doesn't it eat you up inside to see them like that, and know there is nothing you can do to help them?
Fr John |
August 17, 2012 at 10:59 AM
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