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Guess this was the other shoe to drop which is maybe why Corcuera got shown the exit...De Paolis disconnects the Legion from FMM and sets up the new "charism", but from the text it is obvious that disconnected the legion from the past will be easier said than done. In fact, states that they are looking to keep the past and just purify it which doesn't imply any strong break from the past. Kind of strange that he simultaneously states a break from Maciel while dumpster diving for nuggets of truth from the work of maciel....does this mean that de Paolis suplants maciel as the founder of the new "legion of christ" or does this make him the "2nd founder"? Doesn't seem like it from the article. It would be good to get the document that is referenced to further understand what de paolis is advocating...

So the following is an outstanding part of the charism, he says? "Regnum Chrisi is an ecclesial movement 'whose members look to live their Christian life in the light of the mystery of Christ the King' and whose action is situated in the context of the so-called 'New Evangelization.'"

How UNIQUE! How GROUNDBREAKING! How SPECIAL! Good grief.

"But a charism is not to be identified with the person of the founder, especially not with his or her holiness or sin. A charism is a gift made to the Church."

Isn't the point of a new congregation or order to have the charism illuminated by the founder, though? Francis lived poverty and detachment; Benedict lived hospitality and order. The vague Christian ethic of making Christ the King of our hearts and culture is a divinely inspired founding charism when a group is gathered around the founder(s) who gave flesh and fresh meaning to it.

I still think they're putting the cart before the horse. "We have a group of people, some buildings, and a bank account, so we have to justify their existence -- without digging into the tragedy that brought it all into being." [Can't. Go. There.]

Sed contra: MM taught that the founder was all important, sole source of inspiration and charism for a new religious order...

New theme here. Fr Maciel's son Jose Raul Gonzalez has been detained by police and accused of extortion by the Legionaries. He was picked up by the State of Mexico police - this was Peña Nieto's state (he will be the President of Mexico in December) and he is firmly in the LC & Opus Dei camp. He was detained without the correct paperwork and outside of the State of Mexico where the State of Mexico police have no authority. This may be the beginning of state persecution of LC enemies, but going after fmm's own son is a new low point for this corrupt clerics. Here is the story in Spanish...

Detienen a supuesto hijo de Marcial Maciel
De acuerdo a reportes policíacos, es requerido por la justicia del Estado de México y es acusado de extorsión agravada

CUERNAVACA, 22 de octubre.- José Raúl González quien es identificado como el hijo del fallecido fundador de los Legionarios de Cristo, fue detenido por la Procuraduría del Estado de México, en la Ciudad de Cuernavaca, acusado de extorsión agravada.

De acuerdo a reportes policiacos, el hijo de Marcial Maciel dirigente de esta orden católica acusada de tolerar las practicas pederastas de su líder, es requerido por la justicia del Estado de México, por haber causado daños contra personas físicas y desde el viernes habían enviado un oficio de colaboración.

Hasta el momento se desconoce a qué hora y donde fue asegurado, pero su detención fue confirmada al interior de la Procuraduría Morelense, quien solamente recibió el oficio y después informó de su aseguramiento.

Raúl González acusó a su propio padre de abuso sexualmente, de él cuando era niño. En total el fallecido clérigo mexicano Marcial Maciel tuvo dos hijos y adopto a otro, pero abuso sexualmente de dos de los tres.

Este lunes fue detenido por elementos ministeriales del Estado de México, por una denuncia de los directivos de los Legionarios de Cristo, quienes presentaron una denuncia de extorsión en su contra.

Esta detención se dio porque interpuso una demanda en los Estados Unidos, según abogados esta actitud violento los derechos humanos de José Raúl González Lara, pues durante la detención no se presentó un oficio de colaboración que deberían de haber presentado los elementos de la policía ministerial del Estado de México.

these corrupt clerics...

Certainly I have had my say on many threads regarding the absurdity of DePaolis's approach with all that has been his theology of a collective charism (i.e. founder + religious order). I can only say with all I have said before , Amen Giselle.

Now the real question: When will a high level ecclesiastic call out DePaolis for breaking centuries of the Church's lived experience of founders and foundations, simply because he could not man-up to a true dissolution and re-founding of new entities in the corrupted LCs stead?

Essentially here a charism is educed by a mere administrative act of selecting a spiritual theme for the group and have it filter down top to bottom, with a mandate for teams of LC/RC to go from meeting to meeting about it ad nauseam until everyone is talking about it and repeating to each other.. Classic party politic descending from the politburo.

But who will show the way- who will testify to its organic whole via a personal and fatherly witness of life? Who will render the signs of credibility that this is truly from God a not a co-opting operation of a charlatan?

Really I come away with the idea anyone can be a founder- how you live makes no difference. If you can deceive your way through the approvals, you can pull it off. You can always clean it up after, you can always "purify" it... A Sad approach, a sad precedent, a sad day for disowning how the Holy Spirit has worked in so many Holy souls throughout the centuries. DePaolis- can this really ever end well?

Proverbial wisdom has it that you can't make bricks without straw. But the lack of the necessary materials apparently poses no hardship for Cardinal De Paolis. He'll rake together whatever stuff he needs to make the required bricks. Is this typical of how those in the engine room of the barque of St. Peter conduct Church matters? Is it any wonder that I ask myself less and less why I have become increasingly cynical about the Church hierarchy?

Well-said, AnonObserv (9 PM).

I didn't realize the Cardinal was writing fiction these days.

Any account of that group that fails to admonish the avarice, deceit, fraud, and perversions rampant throughout is nothing more than delusional rantings.

Pity to see a prelate be so absurd.

De Paolis certainly didn't write this "explanation;" it's just something he signed off on. It reminds me of the great line from "The Wizard of Oz": "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" In this case, we all know who the man is...

And any attempt to cobble together a charism for the remnant of LC/RC is bound to fail, although it could take several decades for the enterprise to peter out finally. It reminds me of the fate of numerous congregations of apostolic Sisters throughout the world, who, in the name of updating themselves, abandoned their foundational charism (the reason they came together in the first place) and invented some new "charism" for themselves. They continue to chug along, as long as there are a few "true believers" left, but they are quickly running out of gas, and they certainly have no ability to generate new life.

It's easier for an individual to take stock of his or her own life, and to look back and say, "I made some bad choices back then, which account for the predicament I now find myself in." It's almost impossible for a group to engage in a similar process.

And for LC/RC, when they return to their "sources," all they can find is corruption and deceit and darkness.

Why does Mary Shelley suddenly come to mind...?

De Paolis has chosen to accomplish his aim of changing the “culture and mindset” of the entire l/r membership by (as Concerned suggests) signing off on self-serving explanations written by the legion itself. Mission accomplished. What a cunning strategy.

What a farce. Does not the good cardinal know that until the legion takes the first step of confessing its evil works, there will be, as St. Augustine wrote, no beginning of good works? For all victims of l/r, the withholding of justice continues, and St. Augustine said for justice withheld, charity is no substitute.

Is it possible to "consecrate" oneself in the Catholic Church? A person may dedicate him or herself but isn't a bishop required to consecrate a person. I thought that they had already realized that they were not really consecrated persons according to canon law.

Fiddlesticks. I meant to ask about toastmasters in this thread,

Since this is a discussion about the charism, I wondered if anyone can tell me how toastmasters fits in. What were you told about it? Were you told to do it? Why do you think it is such a big deal?

"Dr Frankenstein, I presume?"

"It's Frahnk-en-shteen!"

De Paolis certainly gets the motivation behind the participation of the RC rank and file: " inspired by the mystery of Christ who came to establish the Kingdom of God with his incarnation, passion, death and resurrection. This vision is condensed in the phrase, Thy Kingdom Come! Regnum Christi promotes a powerful and personal experience of the love of Jesus Christ, and seeks to make him reign in the hearts of men and of society."

That is what people buy into. Redemption. It has always been powerful stuff. It burns through sin.

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