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Will this information find its way into the press - Catholic media and mainstream media? Paging Nicole Winfield and Jason Berry!

The Legion is about as anti-pro-life as it gets. People are simply a means to an end, and it's no wonder that Maciel and Co would find it hysterical to think they were investing in porn. They would probably find the idea of child porn even funnier, provided it was bringing in more $$$.

It is hard for me to take the Church seriously when she preaches about being pro-life but harbors (not only harbors, but coddles and supports) organizations such as this. People aren't stupid, and this kind of hypocrisy contributes to the pro-life movement getting exactly nowhere.

I hate to say it, but more and more I am realizing that when large organizations run by corrupt people really push an issue, it's usually because that issue is their weak spot, and they know it. This has led me to suspect that the reason the institution of the Church rails on the pro-life issue so much is that the PTB running the institution are anything BUT pro-life.

The continued support of the Legion by the institutional Church only contributes to my suspicion. Yuck.

Gems-- I think you're making the mustake of overestimating how big the Legion is in the universal church.

The answer is: not very. They're a weird, random new liturgical movement. Their numbers don't come close to OD or C&L, and compared to mainline groups, they're smaller still. In fact, the reason they endured so long is not that they were so powerful, but because they are so small that most bishops/pastors/etc. didn't look at them too closely.

They're only big and indicative of the direction of the church in their own heads. Really, they're a small criminal organization nestled in a corner of a humongous city. Sure, they have pictures of the leader shaking hands with the mayor and getting complements because he donated to midnight basketball or something, but they're not that big.

They're terribly evil. They've ruined lives. But they got away with it precisely because they were such a small, regional phenomenon, and because the inner circle found a group of nice, earnest people to use as cover.

So it's not "The church doesn't care about prostitutes." It's more "The church would never have guess this tiny group was pro-sex-trade, especially since the face the church saw was that nice Mrs. Johnson who shows up for Mass every day and donates time and money to that random small group of missionary priests.

Something that people who bought the LC lie sometimes forget...; the church is really, really, mindbogglingly big........

Deidre, I usually agree with you, but not on this one.
First, if you look at numbers, they almost matched of OD or CL. So that is not true.
Second, I can not swallow the fact that DePaolis waged his finger at Mahony (not that I am his fan), while covering up the LC scandal. Why is there no justice to victims 4 years after the “announcement”? Is it because DePaolis has to guard the “secrets” he mentioned to Nicole Winfield a year ago?
Maciel took advantage of a rotten, vein clerical culture, that exists to this day. Its is not LCRC, but has supported and benefited from Maceil. These people still are there. And please don’t tell me the OD curia pubahs that were by the side of JP2 all along did not know about all this. What did they do? Nothing. Or did they also profit from the slime?
Please stop this propaganda.

Tom. C&L claims 100,000 people IN ITALY ALONE.

Opus Dei - over 90,000 people:

RC claims 70,000

So, okay...bout the size of OB (but dwarfed by C&L). And how many Catholics are there? 1.2 BILLION. Most Catholics, even most Catholic priests, will never even MEET someone associated with RC (or OD, for that matter.)

Lay movements are a very, very small part of the church. They reflect Catholic subcultures, not the direction of the church in general.

LC/RC are a huge problem, because they used Christ's church to promote lies and deceit. But it's not hard to see why people tasked with keeping track of the whole universal church didn't pay more attention earlier on.

If Maciel hadn't short-circuited the normal process back when he started, he would have been long-since suppressed at the diocesan level, like the Intercessors of the Lamb and other groups.

There is no way RC has 70k people. RC did massive incorporations during its large anniversary gatherings 1991 and the Millenium pilgrimages, but these people didn't know what RC was, never received a commitment card and never merged into an active RC group locally. I used to see the RC numbers on the EXPO system and we are talking about really, really surprisingly small numbers. ECYD was similar.

LCs counted in their total RC incorporated at massive events, all ECYD member who ever existed, the family dog and cat.

RC would be lucky to achieve 7k - 15k worldwide active RC members now.

it would be helpful on this site to list the current active members of RC in the largest RC cities Washington, Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Baton Rouge-New Orleans. From there we can get a pretty good idea of the active members of RC in the US. Then after that we really only have Mexico, Brazil and a few more countries. Like I said no way 70k active members right now. Not even close. More like 7k - 15k active RC members total.

I'd like to illustrate what happens when the Legion is involved in local churches. We have "Days of Evangelisation" several times a year in our diocese and the 3gf's were invited to participate. I cautioned the organiser that they shouldn't be paired together, because one couldn't be certain of what sort of "evangelising" [read: recruiting] they would do, so their teams were split up and paired with non-RC folks. I thought it was harmless enough until I just found out (months later) that they had recruited kind people to come and help them in-house, to help spread the word about their events, their mission, etc. These people had no idea that they were RC or related to the Legion -- they were just really sweet, earnest young ladies who so wanted to help spread the faith.

So, not only were they NOT up front about who they were, but they took diocesan resources away from evangelising and siphoned them off to work for them. Indeed, they used the DOE's as a networking tool to help the Legion instead of the diocese. This methodology hasn't changed from decade to decade.

You may be right about the numbers, Little Light, but wherever those few members exist, they cause big problems.

DG in Rome has all the current active RC memberships in the new version of EXPO. The fact they continue to use the 70k number is one more sign they are not interested in truth or reform.

Jim Fair knows the true number as well, but he is doing the job for the Legion Joseph Goebbels did for the Nazis. Misinform. Manipulate. Strong arm when necessary. He even misinforms and manipulates the Legion's own employees.

This is one giant game of chess...the important thing is to keep taking away their chess pieces and leaving them more exposed. This is a game of patience. Slowly the truth will win out, but as their strategy fails and they start to form their lines of defense, we can expect a few more Battle of the Bulge panic moves by the Legion to survive. If they can move a few more pawns into the Vatican and convert them into queens, this may give them a second wind.

'active' members in Dallas may be about 65 and dwindling fast. "Active" includes those who are being recruited and those who have left but they are still being 'counted' with the hope that they will return. In other words, dying is the best known description. As Deidre says, the vast majority of Catholics in the DFW area have never heard of LC/RC, and it was that way even during the heyday in the area. They wouldn't cause a blip on the DFW Catholic radar. Oh there were a few self-designated 'power brokers' but truth is most people just ignored them. The vast majority of people in DFW who have encountered LC/RC dismiss them readily. So if Dallas is among the 'largest RC cities' then perhaps that reveals how the numbers are skewed and have been skewed all along. Even with a former LC bishop the LC/RC have never really gained traction here. All LC/RC wanted in Dallas was some of the rich ones and they got about five when all is said and done.

BTW, discussion here:

which victims have not been treated justly Tom? As far as I know, those who came forward were received and given a just compensation. Except those who sued in the courts, and thus the court system prohibits any settlement.
It would not be right to publish victim names, but unless you have some evidence, it sounds like you were out at the hotdog stand during the 3rd inning and missed a few runs scored.

@I&O: wow, is that Legion Charity (TM)? If my son were a victim and you referred to his suffering in that way, it would be even harder to forgive your insensitivity. As it is, knowing many of the victims, I know that they have come to expect nothing more from L/R.

Where are you getting your information, INandOUT?

BTW, court systems do not prohibit settlements. Oftentimes they are the very system that facilitates such.

If you don't believe that, just check with the Legion of Christ. They are quite familiar with the court system (though not so familiar with portraying their legal troubles accurately).

In and out I think you are repeating information which has been told to you by a Legionary priest.

It is not true.

I don't know of a single victim that has been recompensed or in any way treated well by the Legion. Velasio de Paolis stated that a few (3 or 4?) have received small payments. Nobody knows who these people are, but I know they are not Juan Vaca, Jose Barba, Arturo Jurado etc etc

It is not only fair, but it is the truth, to say that the victims of Maciel and of other legionary brothers and priests have NOT been recompensed, have not HAD justice and have NOT been treated well by the Legion.

In fact I KNOW for a fact that victims have been treated very badly.

One of the greatest tactical errors of the Holy See/DePaolis was not to have heeded the Visitation's proposal to define the charism and in this context re-dimension the apostolic identity of the LC/RC from power-influence 'for the sake of the Gospel' [i.e. themselves] to a humble witness, filling ONE specific need in one corner of the Church's life.

DePaolis dismantled none of this and as illustrated so well by Giselle's comments and others above the harm is coming firstly by misdirecting so many good souls and resources away from the real work of Evangelization. I think this is a demonstrable reality that any Bishop could grasp and act upon.

AnonObserv--- But none of them HAVE acted. Though, I wonder how many know that RC is active in their dioceses. For instance, they're still running conquest/challenge/ancora/what have you in Indianapolis:

Presumably the new archbishop knows something about them, since he was Secretary for the Institutes of Consecrated life and all... but it doesn't appear to be on his radar.

(He seems most concerned with reaching out to lapsed Catholics... which is a great thing for our diocese, but the point is that even Bishops who you'd think WOULD be in the know don't seem to see this as an easy problem to fix at the diocesan level...)

And, mind you, I don't have any secret knowledge-- I just googled "Regnum Christi Indianapolis" and a slew of hits came up.. so presumeably, if the Bishop cared he could find this info as well...

@ in and out: "unless you have some evidence, it sounds like you were out at the hotdog stand during the 3rd inning and missed a few runs scored" So what's the score? Let's hear your evidence of settlements? You don't have to provide names of victims. You can provide locations and amounts of settlments, and the name of the criminal perpetrator if you want. After all there isn't anything innocent about the perpetrators to be protected. Oh wait. sorry. Forgot LC/RC thrives in secrecy. In and out, let's hear the facts. Since we've all be enjoying hotdogs we need to know: What's the score?

Also, this:

Is the diocese as well...

I've reached the conclusion you can't expect bishops to act. And that the best course of action in response to all the wacky, demonic stuff in the church (certain false apparitions, personality cults, etc...) is to work hard to foster good catechesis and HEALTHY activities and devotions.

People turn to the fake stuff when they haven't seen the real thing and so don't realize they're being led astray. The more authentic worship and devotion prevails, the fewer Maciels we'll have.

Also... is it normal for boys camps to feature lots and lots of pictures of shirtless young men? As a mom, I'd be a little disturbed if it was my son, especially given the provenance of the group. I know most scout troops and what have you password protect the photos so only parents can view. Or they do distance shots where the kids aren't recognizable, but... these kids are all very recognizable, and anyone with a passing acquaintance could put names to faces.

Maybe I'm a little too paranoid and security conscious, but.... eww? I'm actually wondering if I should contact the moms involved and let them know these photos are on a LC website....

might explain a lot...

Seriously???? And the official statement sounds suspiciously like a confirmation....

From La Stampa, Herranz explains the new leaks (considering Herranz's report was apparenlty in a vault in the Pope's office, under the new electronic security system just installed, how did that happen? hummm).

“It's an issue that we reported to the Pope exclusively”-assured Herranz to Radio 24-. “Sure there was also talk of this hypothesis behind the resignation of the Pope, but I think we have to respect people's consciousness. Consciousness of people is the sacred place of every man, are decisions made in the depths of consciousness, and as such should be respected. "
As to the complaint by the Pope at the ceremony on Ash Wednesday regarding the face of the Church being defaced, Herranz commented: "Of course there are divisions and there have always been, as well as violent conflicts of ideological lines, are not new, but they have a weight."

I don’t like when the gay community manipulates words like marriage (what is the evolutionary role of reproductive organs?), I am not gay, but to insinuate that the Pope, like Cardinal Herranz does, resigned because of the Vatileaks report that allegedly includes information that there were men having relations with other men is unbelievable.

Abuse of tens of thousand of children, hiding a serial abuser like Maciel, money laundering, including for the mob, none of that is a problem.

It is only that after 2000 years, they “discovered” that some men had adult consensual relations with other men. Wow.

Lets see if they release this report and what it really contains.

Beatísimo Padre:

Los Legionarios de Cristo y los miembros del Movimiento Regnum Christi queremos presentarle nuestra profunda gratitud por el acompañamiento paternal y solícito que ha dado a nuestra familia carismática durante su pontificado. Gracias por la mano firme y bondadosa con la que nos ha guiado para avanzar llenos de esperanza por el camino de purificación y renovación que estamos recorriendo. Su renuncia nos ha causado por un lado tristeza, considerando todo lo que usted ha hecho por nosotros y como nos ha guiado personalmente y a través de su Delegado. Pero, también, nos llena de admiración y orgullo filial constatar una vez más su gran amor a la Iglesia, su confianza en Dios y su profunda humildad.

Este miércoles de ceniza, los legionarios de Cristo y los miembros consagrados del Regnum Christi hemos querido acompañarle en la audiencia general y en la misa de imposición de las cenizas para mostrarle nuestro afecto y nuestra adhesión incondicional al Sucesor de Pedro. Nos gustaría que supiera que hoy, y en la nueva etapa de su servicio a la Iglesia que iniciará al terminar su pontificado, cuenta siempre con nuestra oración y con un lugar especial en nuestros corazones.

Le pedimos, humildemente, su bendición. ¡Gracias, Santo Padre, por su magisterio en palabras y obras, por su testimonio de entrega a Cristo y a la Iglesia!

This is the text of a letter sent by acting LC Genereal Director Sylvestor Heerman to the pope on behalf of the legion/RC on hearing about his retirement.

It is a soppy ring-kissing letter which serves two purposes: it states implicitly that the LC and RC are at his disposition (we'll scratch your back if you scratch ours) and also states to tell the pope that the LC/RC community will be at his final audience on ash wednesday so please say hello to us and we can do some great PR work with that!


Tom I don't think the fact of supposed consensual sex would be enough to cause a scandal to make Ratzinger resign - although it has been insinuated by some clergy to be worse than pedophilia - but the keywords for me are blackmail, power struggles (ie politics), unethical economics and homosexual activity. It is not necessarily supposed that all four activities are linked.

I wonder if the Pope has been compromised and forced to retire: I do not imply that he is an immoral person, but perhaps he has been stung somehow unwittingly? There are some crafty folk in the vatican.

Aaron, I agree, if there is a network of people that engage in perverted behavior, orgies etc in the curia, this needs to be dealt with, there should be no room for that. Either clerics are celibate, honest and keep their zippers up, or be are allowed to marry (as in the Eastern rites), or be fired. This going to confession and all is good until the next time needs to stop.

But other corruption needs to handled, equally: abuse of tens of thousand of children, hiding a serial abuser like Maciel, money laundering, including for the mob; physical, spiritual and financial abuse in new ecclesiastic movements, to mention a few..

Saying “round up the usual suspects”, e.g. them homosexuals, like Cardinal Bertone already did once, as the cause of all evil and everything will be fine does not fly.

But I agree, lets see what is the whole story..

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