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Having been a former legionary, there is much I could say about the first set of numbers; most other priests, especially diocesan, describe those first numbers, (the LCs way of recruiting) as way over the top, very pushy, not respecting the young person's free will, but it's when they hear situations of the second set of numbers, that they know it is a cult, everything together. One of the worse things we had were the norms of urbanity and also so many of the principles and norms. When I tell people about a legionary talking in a bathroom to another, and I don't mean while one is in the stalls or the urinals, but just washing your hands while another is washing is his hands..and if we do it, there is a darn good chance, both legionaries will bring that up in confession. Every thing an LC did is Legionary...and as strict as a cloister life is, at least the way a Cistercian laughs, talks, touches his face, walks, it is his own true self, and not a Cistercian way of walking. I just wish that Pope Francis will first oust De Paolis, who is living in the make believe world of "The Truman Story", and that second, he and Joao Braz de Aviz can sit down with Legionaries (the ones who want reform) and ex legionaries and hear about these cultish behaviors of the Legion.

Out of the mounts of babes: - An analysis of the uncanny parallels between an authoritian political regime and a religious order ...........A video of a 12-year-old Egyptian boy named Ali Ahmed eloquently and passionately criticizing the last year of president Mohamed Morsi’s rule has become a YouTube sensation since going viral on Saturday.

Ahmed, demonstrating a grasp of the socioeconomic and political issues well beyond the level of an average 12-year-old, was interviewed by the El Wadi news organization while attending a demonstration last October organized in his words, to “help prevent Egypt from being a commodity owned by one person and to protest the confiscation of the constitution by a single party.”

In the three-minute video, Ahmed condemns the influence of religion in government, wealth disparity and lack of women’s rights. In regards to the new constitution Ahmed says, “What is built in falsehood is false itself. Even if the constitution is nice, if the assembly that drafted it is bad, we will end up with something bad.”

HIDL, please amend that wish to Francis kicking out De Paolis and replacing him with the 12 year old Ali Ahmed.

I'm with you there, Duplicity!

Unfortunately there are a few more senior members of the hierarchy that should be thrown out along with C de P.
The Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi are not the only cult groups that have had "seals of approval" and who can deceitfully claim loyalty to the Pope. Let us offer prayers of support for Pope Francis that he will have the desire and the ability to do some house cleaning. Cults and mind control could not exist in the Catholic Church if the leadership did their due diligence and acted accordingly.
The Church is the Body of Christ and the people of God and most of us people in the Church do not want to have our leaders giving approval to people like MM to serve other Gods.

"A second difficulty occasioned by Cardinal De Paolis was the apparent decision to put aside calls for a fuller investigation into the whole Maciel scandal than what was accomplished by the Apostolic Visitators in 2009-10. Their investigation consisted largely in interviews with current Legionaries and was focused on identifying irregularities in the lifestyle of the Legion. It did not directly address the facts surrounding Fr. Maciel, or his history of abuse of minors or his maintenance of at least two mistresses and three children, nor the financial irregularities his lifestyle created. The Cardinal has made it clear on more than one occasion his task is that of overseeing reform efforts rather than in further forensic work.

The broader issue is the need for the truth to be brought to light about the history of the Legion and Maciel. Neither the Legion nor the Vatican has done a thorough investigation that provides answers to questions such as:

How is it possible that Fr. Maciel was re-instated as Superior General in 1959, after having been suspended for 2½ years during a Vatican investigation into his conduct? The accusations against him back then have all turned out to be true. He was allowed to return and carried on with more abuse and further immoral lifestyle, even fathering children as he continued as Superior General until 2005.

How did he manage to obtain a Decree of Praise for the congregation from Pope Paul VI in 1965?

What is behind the practical disappearance of Maciel from the Congregation for nearly a year in the late 1970’s? Why did other leading Legionaries do nothing? As it turns out, during that period, one of his children was born. Maciel would regularly disappear for weeks or a month with no one raising any questions.

How could he have carried on a double life, fathering at least three children from two mistresses over decades with no one noticing or colluding with him?

While it was commonly known among Legion superiors that he rarely said Mass or the Breviary, or went on retreats, why did no one notice these red flags? Why did no one see this as indicative of a weak spiritual life as they would for anyone else?

How was it that the Constitutions of the Legion, which now are recognized to have serious flaws and conflicts with Canon Law and are under revision, were approved in 1983 under Card. Pironio, former Prefect of the Congregation for Religious?

How could such a man have gained access to Pope John Paul II and mislead him over the course the years as well?

How can one explain the consistent defense of Maciel by Cardinal. Angelo Sodano, former Vatican Secretary of State, and Cardinal Franc Rode, former Prefect of the Congregation for Religious, and their encouragement of the Legionaries to hold him in esteem, even after the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had censured him with the approval of the Holy Father in in 2006?

What does it say about the internal culture of the Vatican that while Maciel was being praised at his 60th anniversary in 2004 by Cardinal. Sodano, he was being investigated by Cardinal. Josef Ratzinger’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith?

How is it that the Superiors of the Legion could promulgate among members a different version of the Statutes of Regnum Christi than the one approved in 2004 by Cardinal Rode?

Unless the mystery of Fr. Maciel, what he did and how, is adequately clarified, many will question the adequacy of any reforms. There will remain the questions of how the Legionaries and officials of the Holy See were so taken with this man, and why did no one within the congregation ever raised objections, and if they did, why were they ignored. What was it about the Legion’s internal culture that made it possible for otherwise very intelligent men to be so deceived? And it is also hard to see how the Vatican will be able to learn the necessary lessons from the Maciel debacle in order to make its own internal reforms and avoid a repeat of this sort of tragedy in the future."

- Legionaries. The Ten Questions of Fr. Richard Gill, 2/9/11

"A third weakness in the current approach is the apparent lack of concern for holding individuals accountable for their role in keeping secret from Church authorities what they knew of Maciel’s behavior, or if they even collaborated with Maciel by formal cooperation in those crimes. This is certainly a complex area, given the psychological and spiritual power Maciel exercised over so many people. The May 1 Vatican communiqué states that the great majority of Legionaries were unaware of the double life of Maciel, as it was well hidden. But some Legionaries who were members since the 1940’s and 1950’s have admitted knowing of Maciel’s abuses or his drug addiction and yet they promoted the cult of the founder to younger Legionaries who took their stories of the heroism of Maciel as Gospel truth. Now we know those stories were largely inventions of Maciel and others. There is a pressing need for the true history of the Legion to come to light, and to hold accountable those who distorted the truth and misled generations of younger Legionaries, not to mention the Holy Father and the whole the Church.

There is an additional group of private secretaries and personal aides who, over the years, traveled with Maciel, organizing his trips and providing him funds for his activities. This group must certainly share in some of the responsibility for hiding the perverse life of Maciel from the rest of the Legionaries and Church authorities. One should not rush to assign blame, but it is perfectly reasonable to have a full investigation and hold people personally accountable."

- Legionaries. The Ten Questions of Fr. Richard Gill, 2/9/11

I echo the earlier comments hoping Pope Francis will act. The church's track record in this area is horrible, so I'm not getting my hopes up, but if you look to his book "On Heaven and Earth" there are reasons to believe the Pope "gets it" with regards to these groups:

"Yes, some small restorationist factions have continued to multiply; I call them fundamentalists. As you said, before this heap of uncertainties they tell young people: “Do this, do that.” So a seventeen- or eighteen-year-old boy or girl gets excited and they push them forward with rigid directives. And to be honest, they mortgage their lives at thirty, they burst because they were not properly prepared to overcome the thousand and one crises in life, or the thousand and one shortcomings that everyone has, or the thousand and one wrongs that they are going to commit. They do not have the proper criteria to know and understand the mercy of God, for example. This type of rigid religiosity is disguised with doctrines that claim to give justifications, but in reality deprive people of their freedom and do not allow them to grow as persons. A large number end up living a double life."

I'm not sure that the LC or RC were big in Argentina, but I know there were a number of these sects there, many homegrown like the one on our blog, and they all share many of the same faults, down to their foundation.


With commentary (not mine):

As a Pope who happens to be a Jesuit, Francis might have a pretty good fundamental understanding that the Legion has twisted stuff like Jesuit obedience, strict adherence to norms, devotion to the Holy Father, etc. These aspects of the Legion's "charism" are nothing more than an attempt to copy the Society of Jesus. Same with their schools, universities, etc.

While I think the Pope gets it, particularly with these newer groups, many of which are of hispanic origin-(i.e. his backyard), there is still nowhere to be found a vision going forward. One question regarding the restorationists would be: are their charisms valid or invalid? If valid then what does this say about the very definition of the word, does it have any value left? If invalid then how is it they are approved? How will the Church fix the mess and pave a clearer path for the authentic renewal of religious life as a whole.

There is more... going backward.

How he was ordained without finishing studies?
How on earth he could push the canonical erection just one day before the non-proceed envelope arrives? Do you believe Maciel's narration about a mystical inspiration to act that precise day?

Until their fate is determined, I would not trust this order with a 10 foot pole. It is clear they are riddled with problems. This may be the Holy Spirit doing its work and following good vs. evil.

In case you missed it as I did, I'm reposting this link - Frank posted it last week on another thread - because the comment section is quite interesting. Once again Liz Phelan takes on a Legion defender in a most effective manner.

We all know this ad nauseam. Most LCs are still in denial instead of in discerning all the way to the core their beliefs, norms, criteria and so on. Therefore their consciences have been influenced heavily by aspects of methodology that were very binding. To say the least.

How was he ordained without finishing studies?
Catholic priests can be ordained before finishing studies. There is no evidence that Maciel ended canonical studies after being ordained.
How on earth he could push the canonical erection just one day before the non-proceed envelope arrives?
Jason Berry has made it clear that the cardinals Clemente Micara and Nicola Canali were supporters of Maciel since 1946.
Do you believe Maciel's narration about a mystical inspiration to act that precise day?
The legendary saga of the Legionaries of Christ was a collective elaboration. Since 2000, Evaristo Sada Derby and David Murray have played an important role and are now working on the new saga after 2014 General Chapter.

Just a side note here, but I could never believe how David Murray supports this organization (especially after the scandal came out). I know he is getting's just that the guy seemed to have an original personality and an off-the-wall sense of humor, not a stick-in-the-mud like Fair and some of the other lay people in awe of the LCs. Anyway, just a mystery to me. Also, I read some of the Patheos comments to the article link above especially from the ex-LC who responded numerous times: what many people never learn to do is to give good criticism of an organization when they have had a decent subjective experience of it. (although now we look back and see how so many "decent" things were quite messed up) I never encountered any of the abused victims nor did I know of any happening, but one would think that once it come out in the public, these people should have AT LEAST a voice, but obviously justice too. None has happened. I also don't know if justice will happen with Mrs. Mee's estate...Garza is unfortunately a pretty cool and sly cucumber. We'll hope that God can change the course of those events and also by getting DePaolis booted.

A new saga? Rest assured, the in-house legion hacks who produce this stuff will be working hard to uphold that fine legionary tradition of fabricating, ghost-writing, and plagiarizing. The legion culture that produced the old saga and mm's letters and his “psalter of my days” remains safely untouched by the “reform.”

The "je ne sais quois" charism. Wonder why this young man left - he sounds thoroughly Legionesque.

Speaking about Luis Garza Medina. Is he really clean?

When the LC (now exLC) in charge of funding some nuns as part of Maciel charity, made some research on that congregation (taking care of the LC funds), found that they never existed. There is some kind of mistake, he thought, and went to inform Garza...

Luis Garza answered sharply: This is the last time you talk about this with anybody. Don't ever ask again! Now, send the required money...

A few weeks later he was sent away from Rome.

Why LGM is still in authority position? He is superior at least since 1988 as TD in Mexico.
Velasio de Paolis lied to the Pope saying the superiors appointed by Maciel were removed.

Off topic

It seems that Salamanca is now for sale and the few remaining were relocated in Monterrey, Mex.

How on earth they keep talking about 60000 RC members?

Wasn't De Paolis happy to get Garza away from Central Command? Maybe the delegate was thinking "out of Rome out of mind". But the US is hardly a little out of the way backward territory so yeah it's a MAJOR lie when the Legion, the delegate or members of RC claim that those in charge have stepped down. Garza has stepped down from Central Command but he's in charge of some pretty sizable "mission territory" - not just in term of geography but also vocations and $$$'s.

Estatua that is the 60,000 member question! Two reasons:

1) Once on the roster never off.

2) They might be counting all those involved in the RC "programs", not just incorporated members. The "RC Family" is a pretty expansive one by this definition.

By the way, the Legion's Zenit and their Daily Meditations are the ONLY e-mails I get in which my efforts to unsubscribe have been completely unsuccessful. They have either hidden the option so it's too hard to find in the 2 or so seconds that one wishes to devote to the endeavor, or they simply ignore my requests to unsubscribe. Perhaps they count all those unwilling subscribers as well.


Mexico has 30 states or more; if there were one RC section in each, and every section were of 200 members (a very big RC Section); 30 x 200 = 6000 members.

Mexico is the country with more RC members... if all countries had the same members as Mexico, maybe with 10 countries including US, they reach the number. But actually not every state in Mexico has RC section, and the average is 30 or 40 member by section.

How many RC members in the world? Maybe 3000 or 4000... 60K! Huge gap!

I had the sense LG would go where the money was. Even in Rome he had a tight grip on the liquidation of assets in the US. As Thornwood, Orange and suppose Mt. Kisco sell off- someone will have to make that cash disappear from the US legal system.

Salamanca selling off? Are you sure about that Estatua, for if true that makes quite a statement to generations of LCs who did their formation there.

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