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The narcissist cries of how much the Legionaries and RC members were suffering, while little to no attention or care at all was paid to those truly abused, was one of the indications that convinced me Maciel's sociopathy ran deep into the heart of the Legion/RC. It's at the core of how they operate.

Local LCs simply could not get beyond their own suffering to even consider the suffering of those they had scorned and deemed "enemies of the Church". And of course, there was absolutely ZERO gratitude to these victims who had been trying to sound the alarm and prevent further abuse from happening for years.

This is not Christian. It's not even human.

But it's part and parcel of what the LC/RC machine is all about.

…on a more hopeful note, perhaps there is a beginning of a shift in the Church. This happens because people speak out. Hopefully everyone in the curia will read what Pope Francis said and put it in effect (with ongoing outside pressure).


“...Today there exists a great temptation in the Church which is a spiritual form of “abuse”: to manipulate the mind; a sort of theological brainwashing which ultimately brings one to a superficial meeting with Christ but not to an encounter with the Person of Christ Alive! Within this encounter, there is the person and there is Christ. There is no room for the spiritual engineer who wishes to manipulate. This is the challenge: to bring the person to Christ...”

Pope Francis 9/21/2013

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/speeches/2013/september/documents/papa-francesco_20130921_plenaria-pccs_en.html


".. We have contacted those responsible to let them know of our questions/concerns. Often in return, all we received from all those we addressed, was suspicion and silence. I can assure you it’s of little comfort to know that our questions were justified.
Some behaviors you report fall under the criminal justice system. Nobody is above the law. Without doubt it is useful to remind this. It is the responsibility of victims who wish to do so, to file a complaint before the courts when there is reason .. "

http://www.lenversdudecor.org/Appel-de-Lourdes-2013-nous-avons-ete-entendus.html

Archbishop Georges Pontier. President of the French Bishops Conference 11/7/2013
(my translation)

One wonders if there was a link between both statements.

Yes, Pope Francis had some experience with sects in Argentina, especially the IVE. This is where he gets the "pelagian" term. There are some other relevant quotes from his recent book:

“Part of teaching also includes this: One cannot replace another person’s decision. the priest who adopts an attitude of only being a boss, like in fundamentalist groups, nullifies and emasculates those who are searching for God. The priest, in his role as teacher, instructs, proposes the truth as it is revealed, and accompanies. The teacher who nullifies the decision-making for his disciple is not a good priest; he is a good dictator, denying others their religious personalities.”

http://ssvmabuse.tumblr.com/post/58940382208/part-of-teaching-also-includes-this-one-cannot

“Yes, some small restorationist factions have continued to multiply; I call them fundamentalists. As you said, before this heap of uncertainties they tell young people: “Do this, do that.” So a seventeen- or eighteen-year-old boy or girl gets excited and they push them forward with rigid directives. And to be honest, they mortgage their lives at thirty, they burst because they were not properly prepared to overcome the thousand and one crises in life, or the thousand and one shortcomings that everyone has, or the thousand and one wrongs that they are going to commit. They do not have the proper criteria to know and understand the mercy of God, for example. This type of rigid religiosity is disguised with doctrines that claim to give justifications, but in reality deprive people of their freedom and do not allow them to grow as persons. A large number end up living a double life.”

http://ssvmabuse.tumblr.com/post/49959637064/yes-some-small-restorationist-factions-have

Can anyone help? There are some on a separate facebook page trying to claim that papal infalliblity extends to religious orders and their charism.

I found this which claims it's only an "opinion" that infallibility extends to this:

http://cassandrajonesing.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-church-approval-of-religious-order.html

Yet it also crossed my mind about the Charism... I saw that the RC charism was being re-written. Is the LC charism being rewritten also? If the latter is being changed it sort of rebukes the idea there's infallibility, doesn't it?

It's infuriating that this message was communicated to a young woman who was "[un]consecrated" -- in the context of the sacrament no less. Sickness. Heresy. Blasphemy.

The cult should not be allowed any contact with young people -- or contact with anyone at all, for that matter. They have to learn some "life skills" -- such as respect for others and Fear of the Lord.

And not to knit together false teachings based on what they wish was true.

After reading cassandra jones (thanks to the link provided by IVE info), I don't think leg/reg or the delegate should worry themselves anymore about trying to pull a charism out of a hat. There already is one. According to former legion poster boy Thomas Williams, it was approved as “authentic” by the Church. And the founder's writings form “an integral part” of this “charism.” Imagine that.

But wait. The founder's writings have been revealed to be plagiarized and ghost-written. So the Church has approved as authentic a charism based on lies. And the men, who penned these writings and palmed them off as the scribblings of a saint? They still sit in high positions in the legion, never receiving even so much as a tut-tut from the Church hierarchy for this offense against truth.

It is infuriating, Honesty Please. Why is this twisted outfit allowed to continue to recruit?

Reid-- Maybe the question is, how can you STOP them from recruiting? Do you think they'd follow a 'no recruiting order' from the Vatican? They've never respected those on the diocesan level....

@Deirdre: At least one part of the legion charism, as readers of larc know, is to - - - recruit. (Another is - - - get busy building the kingdom of mm.) My question was intended to be somewhat rhetorical in nature. Let me rephrase it. Why did Card. DePaolis direct the legion to continue to recruit? Let me add another question. Why did Card. Rode tell the legion to live out its charism or he (Rode) would kill them?

Of course the legion would find ways around a no recruiting order from the Vatican. But I don't expect any such directive to be issued. See the Nov. 19 post at http://irishmexican43.blogspot.com/

Shameful.

Regarding comment from the NCR link, "I don’t understand how you can be so hard on people you don’t know and who are currently suffering so much".

This makes no sense. Those commenting against the Legion are all former members so they speak from years and decades of first hand experience. The shocker for everyone is that each individual's reported abuse matches up to everyone else's experience of cultic and psychological strong-arming. This type of brainwashing, isolation, and internal pressure (black balling with RC members actively colluding) is what Pope Francis so wisely discourages against because it forces a disingenuous relationship with Christ. And, how many priests and consecrated never had a true vocation but were forced into remaining because the numbers (quantity) were paramount to proper discernment (quality).

The Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi are a commune with a former psychopath as founder. Their methodologies are harmful to the point where many abused families find it difficult to even enjoy the new evangelization. There were countless individuals who were so conflicted by their twisted methodologies, but by the grace of God, they escaped their wrath.

Catholicism is supposed to be beautiful! Support Pope Francis, your diocesan priests and the many lovely people in your neighborhood parish instead. They are the real deal.

Follow your parental instincts and don't allow your children to be alone with the Legionary priests or RC members. They separate the men, women and children and that's when all of the subtle brainwashing begins and your free will and critical thinking ends.

After reading the link reid provided, it is clear that Maciel's perversions of authentic spirituality were present from the beginning of the establishment of the "order". His manipulation and excessive control of the young men were noted within three years of the beginning, as well as his excessive zeal in fund-raising. In less than five years, "charges with seminarians" are noted, as well as his addiction to drugs.

No one can continue to state that he "slipped" along the way, his plan was clear from the beginning and never seemed to waver throughout his life.

I find it intriguing that with the amount of evidence against him from the very beginning, he was allowed to continue for 60 years. What control did he have over those in the Vatican to approve his plans? How did he manage to fool many bishops in Mexico? WHY did his uncle promote him? Also, was he ever ordained? There is no note of that in any of the documents listed from the Vatican archives. This is truly amazing.

@reid

MM made a huge campaign collecting letters from bishops; even very poor bishops (like Papantla)where never have been a LC (cause no $ in that village).

That techniques continue in the legion up today ! You can check it in the link; LC/RC prepared a photo to show to Pope Francis... just like MM used to do.
http://envivo.regnumchristi.org/2013/11/la-foto-de-los-legionarios-de-cristo-que-hizo-reir-al-papa-francisco/
They prepared the photo specifically to that moment. Like a predator, one of the acolytes addressed the Pope after Mass of Bishop Vérgez.

You can see in this document: http://www.lavoluntaddenosaber.com/images/Doc192-12mayo1989.pdf
Maciel gave a huge photo with more than 300 novices (false) to Card. Jerome, Prefect of the Congregation for Consecrated Life.

And in here: http://www.lavoluntaddenosaber.com/ you can download part of the documents (copy of originals)referred by IrishMexican.

With that photos they're saying "We are Legion"...

In speaking of Pope Francis's reform of the curia, if he would just study extensively how the curia managed the facts around Maciel throughout its long history, how suceptible the structure was to manipulation and misrepresentation of the truth of things, he would have ample material to concretize a Vatican reform.

I fear, like the LC reform, the hope for Vatican reform still lacks definition and direction as to what the word really means, and if that goes on for too long it will loose considerable steam.

@AnonObserv

If you can understand italian (even with google help) here there is a good comment about the Curia and Maciel. The comment is made from the vatileaks about Maciel "La voluntad de no saber": http://cronachelaiche.globalist.it/Detail_News_Display?ID=91294&typeb=0&Pedofilia-il-morbo-dei-Legionari-di-Cristo-e-l-infezione-della-Chiesa

I think there has been a confusion in the past among identity, vocation and the particular vocation.

It's a simple mistake, but can easily result in harsh declarations like this.

Each person is who he or she is, regardless of the path followed. The individual chooses to love Christ, and ultimately to live out that love in a particular way of life. But discerning one way or another doesn't necessarily alter the choice of loving Christ.

So yes, what he said is bad, and that way of thinking is bad. Was it intentional? I don't think so. We all make mistakes, and unfortunately, others suffer for our mistakes as well as things we do out of ill will.

Fortunately, there is someone out there who has suffered all this misunderstanding to the maximum degree. He did it for you and me, and he can heal every wound. I think instead of venting, we've got to look to be with that person. He will not stop the injustice - but he will make us able to endure it, and that's what we really want because we all know a perfect world, a perfect Church, and a perfect Movement are impossible.

FYI

"Vatican Under Fire From UN Committee on the Rights of the Child"

By Stefano Gennarini, J.D. NEW YORK, November 22 (C-FAM) A UN committee wants to hold the Vatican responsible for the sins of dioceses and their clergy all over the world.
...The committee specifically mentioned complaints that youth under the care of the Legionaries of Christ, a scandal plagued religious order, were excessively separated from their families.

http://c-fam.org/en/issues/un-organizations/7616-vatican-under-fire-from-un-committee-on-the-rights-of-the-child


Also, with the Vatican now in the hands of religion spin engineers, it leaves me somewhat skeptical that real change will come anytime soon.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511151/Pope-Francis-PR-genius-Greg-Burke-ex-journalist-belongs-Opus-Dei.html

Though I do agree that the Vatican has fallen short on dealing with the lc/rc debacle;

But I do want to warn others not to support the following treaties: "UN...rights of the child" and " UN rights for people with disabilities"

Like the lc/rc these treaties sound nice but are detrimental to our free society. They often say one thing but mean something completely different.

Many people don't realize that a US treaty with another country can take precedence over our own constitution.

I'm sorry Giselle I know this is off topic for this website, but I also want people to not make the same mistakes with these UN treaties.

Charlotte, I am no fan of the UN, its just to show that they will attack the Church when they can. LCRC is an easy target. Yes, in the mean time "progressive" delegations are pushing to expand more mass killings of babies in the woomb. You know, that inconvenient subject that "obescessess" some of us. And of course, not a word on child abuse in Hollywood, the fashion insdustry, sports, schools, etc.. In fact, that passage was taken fron C-FAM, a brave small group of Catholics at the UN (..ok I will grant this, Austin Ruse is OD, and he does great work).


(Anonymous) "So yes, what he said is bad, and that way of thinking is bad. Was it intentional? I don't think so. We all make mistakes, and unfortunately, others suffer for our mistakes as well as things we do out of ill will."

I think one of the issues in the Legion is rigidity or grave judgmentalism that in the past resulted in members being more easily victimized and mistreated. In the real world, if someone has questions, they are seekers of truth...they are curious. However, in the Legion, they are immediately labeled dissidents, or in the ex-consecrated woman's case, an adulterer. At that point you have extinguished the zeal that one has for Christ. You have essentially broken them which is the opposite effect a religious order should have on individuals who are searching. Christ Jesus was curious. Great leaders are curious. MM was not - he was deviant and plagiarized.

If blind obedience is an element that is critical to being an RC, then those who seek higher truths do not belong in the movement. They will need to be enlightened elsewhere and that's alright.

Interestingly, Anonymous's post reminds me of the many conversations I had with LC's. "Let's not look at the bad. Quit complaining. Quit Judging. Only look forward."

The problem with this type of thinking is that it leaves no room to address the bad, fix the bad and remove the bad.

Not a good recipe for reform.

To move on and recover from an illness, one must remove the virus from spreading further damage to the rest of the body. The Legion and pompous (vs pious) priests are infecting the church with arrogance and deception instead of faith and good will.

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