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The Cult has new General Director. They're waiting Papal approval.

A comment I just posted on the previous thread:

I still believe that the "Charism" issue is a red herring.

For anyone with eyes to see, the LC, for better or worse, has had a pretty stable "mission statement." And, at least in terms of the praxis, it is approved by the Church.

It is what it is and it is still expressed in the daily lives of rank and file Legionary priests. We can debate about the validity of its origin, and whether a "charism" is the exclusive work of the founder. But the LC has always had a pretty clear vision of their mission in the Church.

Let's see what the Church affirms after the Chapter concludes. But the Chapter has to finish, Pope Francis has to approve... and then we can be for our against his judgement.

I think Monk you just have to take that mission statement you see one step further, and ask yourself if it came as a grace from God who ordered it to an integral and sanctifying witness of life or not. In what way is it a work of God, what are the signs in its history, development and transmission?

There is plenty to examine, nonetheless, before the Pope brings his own confirmation of it to bear, namely the process itself and the persons leading it.

Truth be told my expectations are pretty low for any outcome reversals of the Chapter by Pope Francis. I would of course be pleasantly surprised if he did take some sort of strong action. Most I will expect are one or two statute changes of the constitution and call it a day.

I believe the next moment to watch is rather, what the LCs truly do in word and deed in the months to follow and especially as we get 2 to 3 years out. Only then will critiques of the current process find their justification or rebuttal.

Were I still in the Legion, I'd probably a little feel sorry for those Dominican sisters. They never encountered Christ in the beauty of the Regnum Christi Movement and didn't have the opportunity to serve the Kingdom as consecrated women.

That aside, have you seen the photos the Dominican Sisters in Ann Arbor post almost everyday on Facebook? Beautiful, authentic, joyful, free, HUMAN women!

Apparently, I am more blind than I previously thought. Monk, what is that 'stable mission statement' to which you refer? And whatever this 'stable mission statement' is, your comment still begs the question. What has LC/RC done, What is LC/RC doing, and what is LC/RC to do pursuant to this 'stable mission statement' aka charism? If charism or mission statement or whatever one wants to call it is so clear and so healthy, then why the serious malformation of LC/RC and the literally thousands who have been damaged by the alleged fulfillment of said stable mission statement?

The problem, Monk, is if that mission statement can be called evangelical witness. Don't think so. Period.

@ ex-nLC: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that the Brothers Hopkins LC had a sister who is/was a Nashville Dominican - the Ann Arbor group being an offshoot of Nashville. Think she was their vocation directress for awhile. Both groups are such an inspiration!

«There were, and are, undoubtedly men and women yet involved in the various structures of the Legion who stay on for noble reasons and with high intentions. That doesn't relieve church authorities of their responsibility to excise from the body a cancer that has seriously damaged the community»...

Estatua, thank you for the link. Do we give the legionaries a chance with the R.I. criminal investigation?

I agree with all the "replies" to my comment. Thank you all.

My experience as an LC lasted 20 years. When I got to Mexico, in 1965, there were perhaps 15 LC in Mexico City. For most of my time I interacted a lot (more than most) with MM, although I was never in the close inner circle which only became apparent over time.

When I was ordained I felt I had a very clear understanding (which had not changed over the years) of what our specific mission was and, in a sense, what our special niche was in the Church's apostolate. I think that was true for most of my generation. As a priest I began to have serious doubts (in New York) about MM and his governance. For this, and other reasons, I left.

I am most familiar with LC operations in Mexico. Through my business I meet many committed RC members. I see the fruits of their work: universities, schools, charities, missions (Quintana Roo) youth groups, leadership development. By and large, I believe they have made an important - essential - contribution in Mexico, in areas where the Church was not particularly present or effective.

Obedience to the Holy Father was, and is, paramount in the LC. The "mission" as evidenced in their approach and results goes far beyond "evangelical witness."

MM started and guided all of this. Then we found out about the crimes, lies, and deceit. His manipulation of people was always evident. However, let's suppose for an instant, that the founder of the Salvation Army wasn't a "saint". Does that mean they have no valid mission or that all of their good works are without merit? I think not. So the LC and the founder are, as far as we know, something of a different phenomenon in the Church.

The Internet burst the MM bubble. Who knows how we might feel about other orders if we had the same amount of information about the personal lives of other "founders"?

So far the Church has neither condemned nor disbanded the LC. They have many great men, albeit with dysfunctional organizational traits. Can they find a better path? That is the dilemma. A dilemma that also relates to Vatican/Church governance that we don't always admit. Deep down do we trust the Pope and the action of the Holy Spirit?

It's only reasonable to give the LC/RC the requisite time. Then we can realistically judge the results. I am all for a "loyal opposition" (a personality trait of mine). I try (it's not easy for me) to be part of the Catholic Church "team" (people of God going towards the Father) which, for me at least, is by no means easy. We have enough enemies on the "outside." In my neck of the woods we have lost the young to middle aged adults and our Church is losing ground to more inclusive denominations. We have much to remedy.

That's why I'm waiting (not with great - rational - optimism.) But I try hard to hang on to my faith and my core beliefs... and that's why I wait.

Thanks, Estatua. I hope Pope Francis reads NCR online. I wish the comments were open. I'd send a hearty "hear hear" for that editorial. Maybe print it off and send it to our pastors, bishops, and old friends still stuck in Regnum Legion. Why can't more people be as frank and blunt about it?

Actually, Monk, what you just wrote is also stated in the article: "There were, and are, undoubtedly men and women yet involved in the various structures of the Legion who stay on for noble reasons and with high intentions. That doesn't relieve church authorities of their responsibility to excise from the body a cancer that has seriously damaged the community." And as somebody else said elsewhere is not mostly a matter of time but of will, first for the Legion and then for the Holy See. However, I will also stand by the Roma locuta, causa finita.

I miss Gregoboro's replies to Monk vertigo inducing comments.

On the topic of charism - there are many things in this world that can be considered good. This does not equate to "charism". We all know there are some things in leg reg that are good, if there was nothing good, we never would have been attracted to it. But "some good" does not equal "charism". And I believe that whatever good things exist in the Legion are not unique to the Legion to the point that it sets them apart in a distinctive way.

Monk gives the example of the Salvation Army. They do some good. Is this a charism? No. One thing the SA has over the Legion, though, is that they know who they are. You could ask 20 different LCs what is their charism and not get a consistent answer. Not knowing your charism is, in my opinion, a sign you don't have one.

Monk says that 40 years ago, he always knew his mission as an LC. Does this mean the LCs of today know their mission? No, and what I see, consistently, is a lack of certainty of their mission. They don't know, yet they get defensive when people say there doesn't seem to be a charism. "But we are a work of God!" OK, fine. You're a work of God. But that doesn't mean you have a charism. Why not start thinking about the alternative, no charism, and how to go forward from there. Maybe it will actually be the easier option rather than vainly trying to conjure a charism from "some good".

Monk, before saying ignorant things, look up William Booth. One of his descents is a professional colleague of mine. To compare the SA to LCRC/MM shows total ignorance, and is an insult to the SA. Booth was a 19th century Protestant revival Methodist that lived a Christian life. You keep mentioning the “goooood” that LCRC does in Mexico. WHAT IS IT??? You mean the dishing out of antibiotics, and cheap trinkets on some "medical" mega mission? Do you mean the high jacking of others generosity and outreach projects?
Why don’t you just say that you are fascinated, mesmerized by MM, for his con artistry, how clever MM was as a con man. Just say it, and get it over with.


You are so utterly off-base.
For once, I will not dignify such a biased, misguided, and uninformed comment with a reply. Peace.

Monk, your "fruits" argument does not stand catholic theology, that's the point. While you mesaure the LC/RC by organizational parameters we measure it by theological ones.

Sorry Jack, I did not want to offend, just be honest. I have been reading your posts for a few years. I really think you are fascinated by MM's con gadgetry. If MM just did a master con that involved some bishops and some rich people with money to spare, using con tricks already in place within the Church, to expose vanity and corruption, he would be a folk hero to many. But that is not what he did. He gravely hurt people to serve his addictions and thirst for megalomania. Examining the pieces of the con may be of value, so it does not happen again, and to serve justice. But not promote his deceptive methods, probably many still in place, since no true reform was allowed. One can not have it both ways.

Chase the money at all costs. Lies and deception and cult tactics work, so use them. Invoke Christ's kingdom to justify all these things, which ultimately exist for one reason - satisfy Maciel's ego and perversions. Keep the rank and file in the dark.
That's the real charism.

Goodness. It seems I am truly much more blind than I thought, or maybe the word is ignorant, or perhaps I lack any ability to understand. Monk, it seems you have led a fascinating life. One I am sure you can be, and are, grateful to the Lord for. Still, as interesting as your experience is, I fail to recognize the stable 'mission statement' to which you refer in your first comment on this thread. Might you please state, for a person like me who does not have eyes to see, the stable 'mission statement'? You say it is what it is... well, what is it?

Yes, I recognize there has been a lot of activity by LC/RC through the years and it seems you were an important part of that activity in Mexico. Activity does not a mission statement make, as far I can tell. Activity also doesn't make what was done good, or evil for that matter. It's just activity. Please illuminate your clear understanding of what your mission was for 20 years, which if I read correctly, you maintain remains the stable 'mission statement' of LC now. Please state the specific mission. Clearly, I am blind.

"Monk" -

Guess you'll have to be our "eyes to see" because, try as we might, we just can't figure out the "mission statement" of the cult.

Or rather, the only "mission" seems to be "Duplicity. Utilitarianism. Greed."

The duplicity is a result of harsh rules. Utilitarianism is a result of brainwashing. Greed comes from desperation. All of it confirms the arrested development (behaving like high school teens). Treating people like pawns shows arrogance. PTB with no grace or calling from God. They are run by the wealthy (not necessarily educted) FOR the wealthy so tag along! But it's not about faith or love or class or respect. The mission is about control, even if people get hurt along the way.

I understand that this group started many schools, etc. in Mexico and other places. But what was the purpose of the schools? Was it to educate children so that they can go out and engage the world or was the purpose to be a funnel to draw in more young people for various Legion purposes, to build the numbers in the group, to serve within the group, etc. etc. That can seem to be as fruitless as a hamster on a wheel--working as hard as you can to get nowhere.

Can anything good come from "aguas negras" (sewer water)? I get the feeling that there was a huge flood of aguas negras and now we are trying to figure out what furniture can be saved or if even the house can be saved. The filth seems to have invaded the very core and essence of what the Legion is and tries to accomplish. Or we can use the gangrene. We keep chopping off more limbs - at some point there isn't much left that can be called a coherent and living entity.

The best (and worst) that the Legion did was/is in Mexico - schools, universities, megamissions, Teleton, Un Kilo De Ayuda, etc, but they were/are essentially viciated by dark intentions behind them. The Legion has retreat houses like El Dorado near Toluca where students would go to get indoctrinated (learn their faith...) and then some recruited (the best? most docile? most obedient?) for RC and others were later benefactors like the La Moderna pastas family that are sold in Walwart.

Once you get outside Mexico, things go drastically south very quickly. The USA was basically recruiting and money with a few mediocre apostolates like their ridiculous attempt to enter the university scene, or their pre-Cana classes in Rye. From all their years in the USA - what have they really done that is worthwhile?

In Europe, where a healthy dose of zenofobia kept the people from trusting the Legion and RC, they have hardly made any inroads except a little bit in Spain. Very little in France, Italy, Germany, Poland. They were in England for a while and then left - nobody wanted or needed them.

Monk can find elements of a charism and he is right, but when you really get to the core and essence, it looks and smeels like a cesspool. I have seen many early LCs and they have no true conviction based on faith. Only one on his deathbed dared to say something ie the ex rector of the Anahuac. If there was a charism, it would be an unstoppable force of good. Maciel didn't believe in anything - what kind of charism can come from that?

When you take out all the shiny 5 color marketing schemes, when you remove all the brainwashing about the Legion as savior of the Church, when you remove all the abusive practices - there is so little left over to try and compose a charism. And their chosen ones to do it are all maciel cronies which only makes matters worse.

I wish I could be as positive as Monk, but am coming up short on elements to find a coherent statement that isn't one of their brainwashing and marketing schemes for more money and vocations surrounded by stuff and fluff to fill the void like the A Legionary is... phrases that sat on the LC's desk.

If Christ was the most important for a Legionary, they would have thrown out Maciel, but all those who rose to the top became as bad as he was. The Nazis were bad, but even some of the most dedicated nazis organized themselves to kill Hitler. they saw the evil. If there was anything at the heart of the Legion that was of God, why didn't it show? Where were the early Legionaries - they seem to be empty shells. All we found were isolated reformers whose efforts never took hold within the institution.

Seems to me that the gangrene has gotten to the core. I respect other's opinions that things aren't as bad, but personally don't see anything that convinces me...

If the success of my career was based on the training I received from the Legion and if I used the organization's successes to promote my talents, strengths, and my professional image, it would be important to me to help keep the Legion Legitimate. I would go so far as to turn a blind eye to the inherent sickness of the group and focus only on the the perceived positives. After all, old habits die hard.

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