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Easy.

Say it just like this, "It. Is. All. Trash."

And while you are at it, LC priests, pray for some damn common sense in your thinking.

The few "spiritually mature" priests found the escape hatch a while ago.

Those remaining stand by while the newly ordained continue to lie and relay made-up stories as if they are real, all without saying a word.

The crazy train goes on.

Even Allen, with the Legion, still ignores the many elephants in the parlor. It's not just the figure and writings of Maciel, but the system that reflects him.

Fr. Bartunek, if you are unaware of how disturbing it is to the world that you and most LC priests respect the words of a narcissistic, pedophile Catholic priest who manipulated millions from God-loving Catholics and manipulated even more spiritually, then we should all be afraid.

How can it be that LC's continue to believe the LIE that Maciel's words should be respected and honored by Catholic priests who minister to the Catholic population?

This fact alone should be enough for Pope Francis to close the doors. Forget about charism when the order cannot see, nor acknowledge right from wrong. Those who do, leave. They already know that the LC's in charge are stained by the sins of Maciel. These same "leaders" will make decisions for decades and will continue to consciously or unconsciously promote the spirit of Maciel.

After three years, the path to enlightenment has not even begun. Why is that?

*About the biggest achievement of reform for this chapter, according to Fr. John Connor is that they are all in agreement on no longer refering to Maciel as "Nuestro Padre." Seriously? After 3 years, and that is about all that reform has meant? Wow... just wow.

The rest here is purely defensive action, which is the only course they can take until the order is dissolved. In that sense my heart goes out to them because the whole logic of the reform is truly insane. They are just following the script of DePaolis.

*Any true change is a loss to them, it's methods and style of discipline, and paternalism is 'their baby'.
The only real baby here is that which was kidnapped by Maciel from Holy Mother Church and in all justice ought to be returned back to her-i.e. good and noble vocations, her orthodox teachings etc...

No, 'their baby' IS the scummy bathwater they draw others to wallow in. They think this bathwater was the means that produced the "baby"-- hence they have not a way to rid themselves of it. It's all about the method, not the witness of life.

*It's interesting that in these discussions so little focus has been put on the apostolic schools by the hierarchy, i.e. the care of the young. DePaolis has completely ignored it, the press has not touched it either, yet no better place has served for vocational entrapment as this 'baby', and the LC counts on it heavily. For an order with a history of abuse of conscience, they should never be given permission to run institutions of this kind. Say that to them? You could only pry those schools away from the fingers of this beast's cold dead 'dissolved' body.

If the Pope just mandated that no vocational program of discernment for this order could begin until the subject has reached the age of 21, I can assure you the LC vision for a future would fall apart in mere months...

"A lot of the fathers fed their hunger for spiritual reading with the writings of the founder"

So in the vast writings of the Catholic Church there is nothing else that meets their spiritual needs? It sounds like they still believe that LC is vastly superior to any other order.

This isn't complicated...if they say they are pontifical right, then why did their founder and other priests have sex with women and young men??!! They say they are orthodox but they remind me more of a liberal commune. Am I way off?

"Orthodox" is a joke when used by the Legion.

Don't forget the drugs--I love the story about Maciel's mouth hanging agape, drooling, while the 11 year old girl looked on and realized he was a freak (I believe it was Flora Brannigan's daughter, but it's been a few years since I read the story now).

Meanwhile, her mother remained convinced the man was a saint. When the daughter asked why his mouth was hanging open, and he was staring blankly, her mother, in awe of the saint, declared it he was in a holy trance.

You can't make this stuff up. An order of priests founded by a child-molesting, womanizing, money-grubbing, drooling, mouth agape, drug addict!

It's hilarious, actually.

Too bad it's for real.

"If the Pope just mandated that no vocational program of discernment for this order could begin until the subject has reached the age of 21, I can assure you the LC vision for a future would fall apart in mere months…"
The "reform-minded" members should have no problem with this idea. I think it makes a lot of sense.

"If the Pope just mandated that no vocational program of discernment for this order could begin until the subject has reached the age of 21, I can assure you the LC vision for a future would fall apart in mere months…"

That would be the death knell for the Legion, and everybody knows it.

So don't expect to see a Pope or anybody else in Rome mandating such a thing.

LEs great suggestion!

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1400434.htm

In the case of the Legionaries of Christ, who for more than three years have been undergoing a process of reflection and renewal, the archbishop noted that the process is overseen by a delegate appointed by and responding directly to the pope.

The process began in 2010, following revelations that the Legionaries' founder, Father Marcial Maciel Degollado, fathered children and sexually abused seminarians. Priests of the order have been holding an extraordinary general chapter in Rome since Jan. 8 to elect new leaders and approve new constitutions.

Questions have been raised over the past three years about whether the Legionaries could continue to be true to the order's founding charism or inspiration when the Vatican itself said their founder had been guilty of "seriously and objectively immoral behavior" and "real crimes," and had lived a "life devoid of scruples and of genuine religious meaning."

"Something that we are becoming more and more aware of," Cardinal Aviz said, "is that you must distinguish between the founder who brings a charism and the charism itself. This is a distinction we are learning to make because, honestly, it applies not only in the case of the Legionaries, but we have several similar cases, both ancient and new."

The cardinal did not list other problematic founders, but said: "Not all founders who bring the church a grace that is good and beautiful live according to the grace they communicate. This is something we must recognize. This is how it is."

Fortunately for the church, the cardinal said, "Sometimes the founder and the grace coincide."

* On those several similar cases- "The cardinal did not list other problematic founders"

Sounds like the good Cardinal has really thought this one out..examples and all..or is he just repeating DePaolis talking points?


** Bad founders "who bring the church a grace that is good and beautiful"

OK does this square with the facts?-- If the Holy See truly believed that 'good and beautiful', then there would have been no need for a visitation, no delegate, no need to rewrite the constitutions, no need to restructure the governance of the order, no need for tutorial sessions on respecting conscience and the proper role of authority. And most obvious of all the LCs themselves would be presiding over their own General Chapter, who are the bearers of this 'good and beautiful charism'- instead we have it tightly controlled by DePaolis and Ghirlanda.

Similarly Miles Jesu is still there, purged it seems, but floundering after having been 'refounded' by its commissar.

Archbishop Watty said the founder wounded the group, wounded its spirit and way of being. How much more plainly can the Maciel effect be spelled out?

Thank you Jorge and AnonObserv -- I moved the conversation here:

http://www.life-after-rc.com/2014/01/pilfering-the-patrimony.html

Pinecrest Academy had week long 20th anniversary celebration plans, including a founder's day, that were cancelled due to snow last week and methinks it was a sign. Half the founders are either repulsed by the Legion or have serious reservations about the whole thing and the other half can't afford them, or now have grandchildren that can't afford them. What a mockery it is.

Ah, they weren't truly dedicated then. Risking life and limb in unsafe conditions is a sure way to demonstrate your dedication to the mission and christ.

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