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Before rushing to judgment, I think it's important to consider the "Update" part of Rod Dreher's article about Woody Allen and this case:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/page/2/

Very good comparison, Giselle. I would feel nauseous every time I touched or read anything of Maciel's because of the life he led. For that reason, I could never have anything of his in my house. How could one trust that any of his thoughts had any validity since that same mind could do something as perverse as he did? And, yes, out of respect for the victims we should not promote anything that Maciel had was involved in. Had he repented at some point, this would be a totally different story, but since, from the accounts we have heard, he died unrepentant, there is no way we can approve anything of his.

@Maria G: I see Dreher's information, including this:

"I completely agree that Allen is a pig — if there were no Dylan Farrow accusations at all, his unrepented-of conduct with Soon-Yi Previn was enough to establish his swinishness — but that does not detract from his accomplishments as a filmmaker."

So he is in the latter category, which translates to the current meme, "MM bad; Legion good."

The original point stands.

As an aside, consider the notes of JP2, slated to be burnt, but instead published by his Secretary, Cardinal Dziwisz:

"Two brief remarks about sinful priests, registered in March 1981, perhaps gain new significance under the flood of pedophilia cases against Roman Catholic clergy. The pope noted that if sin is an act against God and faith, then 'sin of a chaplain is especially so.'"

...and thus the sins of founders...??

Yes, the idea of an abstract separation of the art from the artist is always there they say. But we are more relational than what we like to admit. Before we know an artist, it is usually our intentions that fill our mind when we look at his art, but after we know him, his intentions behind his work seem inescapable and hang over every brush stroke and shade of color.

Ofcourse the case of Maciel is worse, because his own life and acts are the medium for his work, and the manner of life he creates a way for his cofounders with his intentions behind are .

We are not speaking of a private life transgression vs professional life's work. No, we are talking about the work itself riddled with occult sinful acts and intentions.

Sooner or later those intentions will be sought out with neophytes, and right there the wound of Maciel will be delivered anew to a future generation. We are relational beings and intentions matter to us.


Oops..change this

Ofcourse the case of Maciel is worse, because his own life and acts are the medium for his work, and the manner of life he creates a way for his cofounders with his intentions behind are .

TO

Ofcourse the case of Maciel is worse, because his own life and acts are the medium for his work, and the manner of life he creates for his cofounders ultimate motive included are mixed into his canvas. There is no removing it once mixed.

Pope Francis is with the poor... With Who?

With the legionaries or with the victims?

I had the same reaction to the news story, Giselle.

The feeling of disgust is overwhelming when one even hears the name "M_____ M_____". To "mediate" on anything this criminal pervert wrote is sick.

* "meditate"

God bless Dylan Farrow. She has the courage our church leaders do not have. She has the clarity our church leaders do not have. She has the compassion our church leaders do not have. She has the strength, fortitude, voice, words, leadership and love that our church leaders fail to demonstrate. I don't expect much of Hollywood, other than good movies on occasion, but my church…well, she disappoints me. Maciel is a monster of epic proportions, and we have the products of his system, like Fr. Bartunek, saying that it will take a while to figure out what to make of his writings. The Catholic Church has failed us all on this critical issue of the Legion, and whatever she decides, (Monk!) I will take with more than a grain of salt. She lacks credibility on this one.

Maria G.,

Glad to meet another Rod Dreher fan.

I think you may be alluding to this post on Rod's blog from a few days ago, in which his Update offers a few points in Allen's favor:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/woody-allen-separating-art-from-the-artist/

Rod weighs in with another thoughtful post on this topic today, and comes up with some interesting thoughts about exactly "what" in Allen's philosophical outlook that enabled him to molest his child (if Allen is, in fact, guilty).

I think the comparisons between Woody Allen and Maciel are rather limited, but there is food for thought here about some possible parallels between the two men:


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/woody-allen-nihilists-babysitters/

People don't want to believe the accusations against Woody Allen because if they do, they will lose something.

It's the same with the Legion. Those who continue to follow are afraid of losing something if they walk away.

In both cases, It could be jobs, friendship, love, connections, ideals, money, credibility - whatever.

I don't think that our lives were meant to be so simple.

Separating the "art from the artist" is the easy thing to do. Standing up to the artist and losing everything, if that's what it takes, is the right thing to do.

What do you expect from Hollywood?

Now what's to be said about Catholics who don't stand up for the victims?

Justice, I assume you are for justice, and I am, also. My point was (from reading the Dreher "update" on the article to which I gave the link,) that there are reasonable-sounding people who question whether he molested Dylan. That's all. I'm forever leery of Allen and his work for many reasons, including that he married his step-daughter; I'm even more leery of him after reading Dreher's post of today (February 4) concerning his philosophy of life. I pray for Woody Allen. But there is honest (I hope) controversy about whether he molested Dylan. That's all that I wanted to draw attention to.

Maria G. I understand your point. However, it comes down to two people's truth and since the issue is now public, and we can either remain silent or take a position, I am siding with the victim given Allen's history.

Thank you Giselle. Your article is excellent.

I second Xavier. Same criminal hypocrisy. But the Church should set the standard, be an example, address fully and promptly injustices within, those abused physically and emotionally, those with lives scared by the actions of Church members. Perhaps if the Rodes, Sodanos, de Paolis, Glendons etc...where a little more forthright, then perhaps the Polanskis, the Allens etc.. and those that cover up for them, the Weinsteins, Clooneys, Walters.. would think again.. Sometimes its just easier to speak of some anonymous abstract poverty somewhere at then end of the world..

Douay-Rheims Bible MK 9:42
"And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me; it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he were cast into the sea." Can we honestly think that a person who sexually abuses a child can contribute something that will enrich our lives? That is worth honoring or studying? These are strong words from Jesus Christ. We should all be horrified by MM's behavior and conclude that although many good people joined the Legion and RC, it was started by a great sinner FROM THE BEGINNING. As soon as I knew the truth I went through the house and threw out every bit of LC/RC material. The victim's story should be taken seriously, no matter how prominent the accused is. Look how long MM was protected within Legion.

Brilliant post Giselle!

Probably Maciel was never in the state of grace during his whole life - as a young boy he was a sexual pervert, even with domesticated animals. He chased after young boys dressed as a little girl and asked them to abuse him.

When I was in Rome I remember that Maciel wrote a letter where he swore before the Blessed Sacrament and before the Blessed Virgin that he was innocent of all charges of abuse. I would call that sacrilege. There was a note on the bulletin board next to the letter that all members were prohibited from speaking about the letter and to guard silence. This was in middle 90s.

I see a whole life dedicated to deceive, destroy and abuse. He died essentially unrepentant of his crimes. I can't see where the Holy Spirit works through that situation and the effort the Church takes to try and rationalize that tells you just how far the tentacles reached inside of the Vatican. Bartunek seems to echo the try sentiments of those inside the Vatican. If not, why go to all this work, expense, time, and theater to whitewash this whole matter. "There must be something of good in this whole matter if not, why so many "holy" legionaries.

@Little Light

The thing is They CANNOT see the evil; they are TRAINED to see the good and only the good. Nobody can be his own judge; but they are trying to be good judges for themselves... and taking only one piece over the table: the "holy" things.

Take for instance John Connor words regarding the new "trasparency" commitment: "That was a pretty significant change in communication," Connor said. "I would hope people see that."

He is just seeing the letters from Legion superiors acknowledging the validity of sex abuse allegations against William Izquierdo... BUT Remember there were two persons implied in those allegations... and Legion superiors never spoke about the second person.

Was that a pretty significant change in communication?... and Connor is proud with the "winds of change"... They CANNOT see.

Little Light,

You wrote:

"...as a young boy he was a sexual pervert, even with domesticated animals. He chased after young boys dressed as a little girl and asked them to abuse him."

I haven't heard this before, so can I ask what your source info for this is? Was it Alejandro Espinosa's book about Maciel? I can't read/write Spanish, so I am at a disadvantage in reading Espinosa's material.

Also, do you (or anyone else) know if Espinosa is a relative of Maciel's? I heard that somewhere, which would explain how he would have insight into Maciel's early years.

Thanks!

Yes, primarily from Alejandro Espinoza. He is maciel's nephew. You can check this article and put into google to translate.

http://www.zocalo.com.mx/seccion/articulo/libro-de-alejandro-espinosa-alcala-marcial-maciel-un-nino-retorcido

The best source would be his books instead of summaries of them. I haven't heard of any translations to English though.

This stuff is really messed up so read the maciel biographies at your own risk...

I can enjoy any number of movies without knowing about the sins or crimes of actors or directors. And when they come to light that movie does not change for me. But this guy's corpus is its own genre by and about this persona. And you can no more detach his persona from this corpus than MM from the Legion.

..nat, I have not seen a single Allen movie since the revelation came out 20 years ago. Thinking back on what I used to think was humorous in his movies, no longer is funny to me. Art with a putrid smell is like rotten fruit, not pleasant.
The UN panel report I hope is a wakeup call (even with its BS mixing of abortion etc). I pray the Pope uses this as leverage not to give LCRC a pass, and demand that they address properly abuse victims, all abuse victims, physical, psychological and financial. Time to stop dithering.

New Superior is Eduardo Robles Gil

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