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The "Overview Talk" is really a PowerPoint presentation that starts with a very strange slide that literally shows the movements as a parallel church.

It's breathtaking in its honesty.

It shows a situation where lateral communication with the bishop is an afterthought.

No explanation is provided that I can find.

It should be noted that there is a subsequent slide with a cobweb of more interconnections between everybody.

The schema is not-correct ecclesiologically speaking.
Always showing their poor formation.

Very childish...
They are not an enterprise but trying to use its methodology.
With that propaganda they are like children playing to be big entrepreneurs...

I don't have the time or the stomach to go through this material. Ugh. Is there any other Movement in the Church that uses this kind of PR to "sell" themselves? What ever happened to the Regnum Christi "Getting Started" book that was published just before the scandal broke? Do they still use it?

It seems that "Renewal" = "Retool".

Nothing changes with this group.

I heard this very thing at a Formators conference in Atlanta. It was breathtaking at the time but it empowered us to sideline bishops that were not recruitable.

Interesting diagram. If I understand, according to the "renewed" LCRC
1) They do not report to the Pope or anyone. Yet the lay report to them. So they are no different from my local independent gas station, or plumber or local self appointed mega church pastor.
Basically a stand alone organization, hawking deformed MM ideas, correct?
2) Their idea of the rest of the Church is equally interesting. According to them, no one reports to curia hierarchy any longer, just directly to the Pope. Basically, canon law, obedience to Church rules mean nothing to them. What else is new?

Off topic: On purpose of Paul VI beatification, lcrc are running an article in their blog live RC (in spanish). The piece is written by Rome spokesman Benjamin Clarion. The answer (in spanish as well) is here: http://liberabitveritas.blogspot.it/2014/10/discipulo-del-falso-profeta-proclama-la.html

Another setback for LC/RC land - Legion loses tax exempt status at the Mt Kisco property and subsequently sues New Castle.

http://chappaqua.dailyvoice.com/news/legionaries-sues-new-castle-over-loss-tax-exemption

Well they do have a point, the property is not being used. I remember when a couple of brothers went there for a day an simulated it was a seminary for some inspectors. It did look very convincing, we placed some brothers "cooking" in the kitchen, placed a couple of suitcases and clothes in the rooms, and walked around "studying" to make it look like we were staying there.

They only used the place for few retreats around the year, but I feel it was moslty used as get-away weekend spot for superiors, and the occasional hiking spot for the philosophers.

Now that there are no philosophers I doubt they migt pull the same trick once more. You just can't keep lying all the time.

Immaculate Conception Apostolic School has put up its very first website.

http://www.icasnh.org/

To voice your disapproval please write to their email address:
icas-nh@legionaries.org

I just received this email from them:

"Dear Friends,

Greetings from Immaculate Conception Apostolic School.

Attached is an invitation to join us for our annual Christ the King celebration and Open House, which will be held on Sunday November 23rd this year. We hope that you can join us.

If you are unable to make it for the Mass, you are welcome to come just for the Lunch and the presentations which starts at 12:15pm. Any family and friends you would like to invite are also welcome.

Please let us know if you will be able to join us. RSVP by November 16 to this e-mail address (icas-nh@legionaries.org).

God bless,

Sincerely in Christ,

The Staff"

If you are in New Hampshire or live in New England, please do whatever you can to come and protest this event. We need to contact the Diocese of Manchester, contact the media in the area, and do whatever we can to showcase the abuse and close this place down!

The diagrams are means of educating a particular message that the LC want to get across to a particular audience. They are not meant to be factual, they are propaganda.

What they are saying here is that the Legion is answerable to the Pope only. They are putting themselves on a par with the bishops and the curia.

They are also curiously sending an ambivalent message about RC - is it an ecclesial movement or a lay thing? This is important, because the reader can INFER what they want to from it to satisfy their own worries.

It's ok! The RC is a lay thing, it's at the bottom of the chain, it doesn't need all that authority or permissions - it's just something for us normal folks.

It's ok! The RC is an ecclesial movement right next to the pope! It is up there with all of the bishops in the world, and the curia, and religious congregations! It is approved!

We need to be careful of what we infer from this: there is a clear message that the LC will want to use this chart for, it is not a factual chart.

In reality, the chart should be read from bottom to top to understand the LC/RC mindset.

Thanks, Aaron.

So the cult is peddling more duplicity, more lies, more manipulation.

Usquequo Domine?

I'm not sure where you got the graphic leading this thread, but the actual graphic has many more lines and is designed to show that Regnum Christi is just a part of the greater Church, not apart or competing, but supporting. You can get all the actual materials on our website where is is openly available for anyone to view and use.

http://www.regnumchristi.org/sites/convention/

Jim,

When Fr. Juan Solana impressed the world with his Marcial Maciel - Mary Magdalene comparison we learned about the true core of conviction that radicates in the heart of the Legion and RC. Fr. John O'Reilly gave confirmation of the moral disorientation that feeds off of those convictions and finally here you are the 6 figure salary PR guy paid to clean up the mess. With the trail of collateral damage left behind by the Legion debacle, I think the Church has seen enough of the Legion & RC fraud. You have nothing to offer the Church. When Philip Morris changed its name to Altria, nothing changed - just cancer sticks in a pack. The same with the Legion & RC - nothing has changed despite the flashy PR campaign and the follow up with their lawyer PR guy.

Jim, thank you for attempting to offer clarity. A few comments:

First of all, a verbal description for the benefit of everyone here: The Actual Graphic differs from the ones posted by Giselle only in that it adds some red lines from Regnum Christi to the various structural components of the Church - Bishops, Dioceses, Parishes, Religious Congregations, Ecclesial Movements, Curia.

So if the grey lines are the recognized and official lines of communication, authority and relationship within the Church, and the red lines are lines of influence by / membership in this entity called Regnum Christi, doesn't that mean that Regnum Christi actually operates OUTSIDE the rest of the Church? Where, for instance, is the group's official connection to the Curia - or the Pope? There is only one grey line between anything else and Regnum Christi and that line is from the Laity. But in reality, that line from the laity also connects to public schools, country clubs, charitable non-profits, secular jobs/careers, and a whole bunch of other things that the laity do (and to which hopefully the laity try to bring their faith . . . ). All fine groups on their own, all containing people who are part of the Body of Christ - none part of the greater Church in any structural or identifiable sense.

Second, the materials in general give no clue as to what exactly Regnum Christi IS. They certainly talk about what Regnum Christi DOES, and they also list who Regnum Christi claims for membership (primarily laity and diocesan priests and of course Legionaries). But what exactly is this group - a Catholic club? An organization? Does it receive approval/recognition/sponsorship from diocesan bishops? Can one start a Regnum Christi chapter in one's parish (like you can with the Knights of Columbus)? These are crucial points if one is going to maintain that Regnum Christi is part of the greater Church - especially if it's trying to influence/interact with that Church.

Third - red pen alert! - please correct the title page of the "Regnum Christi Mission" brochure: "it's" should be "its". "Its" is a possessive. "It's" is a contraction. Your thank-you is most welcome - in other words, you're welcome.

I have even more basic questions for Mr. Fair:

Are the LC a part of RC, or is RC the lay organization of the LC? What does history tell us? What was Maciel's purpose in bringing the RC into existence?

Jim, these are screen grabs from the powerpoint presentation on the page you link. Go and run the presentation and you will see these screens appear.

As I commented above: "It should be noted that there is a subsequent slide with a cobweb of more interconnections between everybody."

This presentation of the Church as an org chart is unhelpful and misleading in the weight it gives to Regnum Christi in the lives of its lay members.

@Estatua, @Tom, @Aaron, @Duplicity... For the ecclesiology proposed by RC maybe you'd prefer to discuss the documents being read and studied by RC members and not a power point presentation which is usually accompanied by an oral explanation. Slides out of context may be misleading. These texts are more worthy of our attention. They may be found here: http://www.regnumchristi.org/comissione/resources/

It's true that an oral explanation accompanies a powerpoint.

It's also true that an org chart is a visual representation of the same content.

Jorge, I would read the documents in entirety if they were ALL in English. Currently only half of them are. And if the ORIGINAL 2004 Statutes, including all numbers abrogated by the Pontifical Delegate, were presented instead of selected sections. Statutes out of context may be misleading.

Mr. Fair? Paging Mr. Fair. Mr. Fair, please report to the nearest blue courtesy phone to answer some unanswered questions.

If LC is now part of RC does that mean that the 3 GF's will get to control all the money? Maybe when that happens, they could vote themselves a raise.

Well, Dilbert, according to the new Constitutions, it's still pending whether the LC is part of the RC or not. Not until the Holy See will have approved the statues of the RC.

To my mind, the question still remains: what was Maciel's intention when organizing Regnum Christi chronologically AFTER he gathered the LC around himself and founded a religious community?

Just because the outfit might now be wanting to reorganize itself along the lines of Opus Dei or even the NeoCatechumenal Way and say "We're basically a lay ecclesial movement in which some of our members get ordained as priests" doesn't necessarily make it so.

It's like the religious communities who were founded for one purpose, one apostolate (say, teaching or nursing) and now are claiming something completely different to be their "charism." Because they are not being true to their original charism, the original purpose for which they came together, they are dying on the vine. Let those who have ears to hear, hear.

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