life-after-RC

The Efficiency Model of Evangelisation (TM)

Pete Vere dug through his archives and found an enlightening comment from March, 2010:

There is more to the LC RC controversy, the "Unique Methodology" supposedly developed by Father Maciel was almost an carbon copy of the Latter Days Saints Community Methodology. Having lived amongst Mormons for over 9 years, I recommend every RC member to read Judy Robinson's book "Out of Mormonism" to discover Fr. Maciel's methodology is not unique at all.

When I confronted the leaders of the RC Movement at our LC school in the suburbs of St. Louis, I was told at first, "How ridiculous, RC is completely Catholic, and what a ridiculous accusation! How could you possibly compare it to Mormonism?" Then I explained I was not saying the theology was like the Mormons, just the methodology. They replicated the Mormon methodology to the tee. A RC woman's lifestyle in the "movement" was so identical to a LDS member's lifestyle in their movement, I challenged a RC leader to read "Out of Mormonism", and then tell me what she thought. This woman was a staunch defender of Fr. Maciel, and everything RC. She called me back 3 days after reading "Out of Mormonism", you're right, she said, "We're not Catholic, we're Mormon!" She was horrified by the exact replication.

I confronted the Priest, Fr. Edward Hopkins, at first he denied any similarities, saying he had heard the accusations of cult-like coincidences, then he said," but the Mormons? Why would you ever say we were like the Mormons? I said I had lived amongst Mormons for over 9 years, visited the temple many times, and the similarities are more than uncanny, their methodologies are identical. Then he shut the door, and explained to me that the Mormons are the fastest growing church in Mexico, so Fr. Maciel mimicked the methodology to stop the hemorrhaging from the Catholic church to the Mormons, and said they were taking what was good from the Mormon Methodology, and leaving the bad, like it says to do in the Bible." That was when I left, I find nothing redeeming from the Mormons.

Mormons are encouraged to do what the call "organized shunning" to punish church members who disagree with Church leadership. Organized shunning is for the erring church member's own good they say. The organizational structure is almost identical, Fr. Edward would not have denied the similarities at first if he had not known I had so much familiarity with the LDS movement, then making excuses for it made me think I am not the first person to see the correlations. I was soon shunned for speaking the truth, even thought Father the similarities were glaringly obvious to anyone who ever spend time with LDS movement members.

The similarities are so many, I highly recommend RC members read "Out of Mormonism" by Judy Robertson, the irony was that the women who accused me of making a ridiculous claim was so outraged that she had been fooled by Fr. Maciel that he had come up with this "Unique Methodology", he had claimed credit for devising a system that has been in play within the LDS movement for over 100 years. She seemed to be able to believe the pedophilia claims were false, but now after reading "Out of Mormonism" she could not longer believe the "Unique Methodology" was original, as we have all learned his supposed
"original" writings were also plagiarized. So, nothing was unique, or original, or honest it seems.

I left because I felt an enormous fraud was being enacting on the unsuspecting members of this RC movement, and their own blind loyalty was perpetuating it. I also felt uncomfortable when I was told that Father Maciel asked that his devotees not begin efforts toward his canonization till at least 30 years after his death. What saint would even propose that he would be considered for sainthood? One unifying characteristic of saints was their profound humility, Fr. Maciel seemed to lack humility entirely. Well as the old saying goes "you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool, all the people all of the time."

The occasion was a recent post concerning Mormonism, specifically the scam concerning its foundations, which occasioned a glib response, dismissing the revelation as irrelevant (reminding me of LC responses to all revelations). But, if you take this story (which sounds plausible) and add to it another, you'll find a more curious mix.

I was with Jose Barba and Juan Vaca a few years back, and they were around at the inception of Regnum Christi. They said that MM simply reached over into Opus dei to take its methodology for prayer, and those became our "commitments" daily/weekly/monthly/yearly. I can attest to their total similarity.

Then when you add the recent expenditure, you'll see the "charism" consists of:

• Mormon psychology;
• Opus dei discipline;
• Business-speak definitions.

Voila -- You have a "unique" Catholic Movement that will save the Church!

ADDENDUM: And back to the ubiquitous mention of "fruit," remember that borrowing/plagiarising methods that work in other settings helps get a jump on those numbers (that the Legion's supporters find so compelling) seems to short-circuit the Holy Spirit. Who needs a divine mandate if MBA's and cults can combine to create a dynamic work of God?

Why LARC?

Contrary to the thinking in many circles, LARC was created to be a forum where the people who once got caught in the Legion net (by contributing in some way to its enterprise) can assess how and why it happened. In particular, they want to understand how our Church (headed by a man invested with the authority of Saint Peter and guided by the Holy Spirit) could fall for such a scam. Does this undermine her claims to infallibility? Does this make the faith less true? Could this justify putting a distance between ourselves and Holy Mother Church?

My sense has always been that this didn't touch on faith and morals, that the faith is still true and that we need the Eucharist, which is only available to those who embrace the authority of the teaching Church. So here we are, after many years (this site was set up in May, 2005) older, wiser, and perhaps more at ease with some things, while still exasperated about others.

Having assessed many facets of the Legion during that time, and witnessed its enduring obstinacy -- through a refusal to show remorse or a sincere desire to change -- "Little Light" reminds us of the heart of the matter. (This is in response to whether it is to the Legion's credit that they fire poor teachers):

"Solid Catholic education" (schools) = "solid Catholic formation" (seminaries). LC/RC is basically about presenting an image, recruiting & fundraising. If someone becomes a shark in the fishtank and the fish are scared, they will not be easily recruited or be big $$ supporters. This auto-defense mechanism is not about "Catholic education" but about results which are the results the LC/RC camp wants to achieve. So running off a "bad teacher" can be proof of protecting Catholic teaching but also can be a useful tactic within the LC/RC methodology to circle the wagons and keep their prey closer as these families are building trust in LC/RC.

When LC/RC burns too many bridges & there ain't no more to get, they blow out of town faster than a devil from holy water. As their fanatical base builds they invest more. Just look at St Louis vs Atlanta.

My recommendation for all LC/RC people is take a step back, take a deep breath and look at things from an objective viewpoint free of knee-jerk reactions. The simple point is that maciel created the legion to have access to boys. lots of boys, who he could manipulate as he wanted. He build around the legion an aura of holiness & Catholic tradition. Over time he refined his abilities & eventually it looks & smells Catholic but in the end it was all about money, manipulation, abuse & protection from the "church's enemies".

I personally know that LC leaders lie to achieve their goals. They abused the vows by recommending people to profess whether temporal or perpetual to continue as LCs only to harvest their dreams, manual labor & skills. They lied to benefactors about projects to get large donations based on falsehood. They lied to parents to get their children to an apostolic school. So, so many lies. & who is the father of lies?

At one time we believed the lies & now we are here to tell others the truth... as we saw it & experienced it. So it is not hard to believe that the LC/RC people have a hard time believing us but you will be thankful to us when you do.

So yes, subpar teachers are let go, but so are any who will not submit to the methodology, not necessarily for the sake of education, but for growing the Movement. Likewise, there is a shunning process for all who populate the apostolates, which are more about growing the parallel structure than actually benefiting Holy Mother Church. To the degree that there is an overlap, the real Church does benefit, but that is not the primary motive, only part of the window dressing.

[Btw, here are the second and third posts. One can see that nothing has changed, given recent pep talks within concerning fidelity and discernment.]

Updated list of Legion-affiliated apostolates

In this thread we will identify the groups associated with the L/R Movement. Kindly list the apostolates in the combox with the groups you know to be affiliated for certain. If there are questions, feel free to raise them here; and if a group is only suspected to be linked -- kindly indicate why. Remember that no active member of Regnum Christi can offer time to apostolic work without some accountability to his/her superiors, so excuses like, "I'm in RC but I do this work on my own" only has limited credibility. Furthermore, those who are given permission to work with other groups usually have as a stealth intention to infiltrate, recruit, or ultimately take over the independent work.

Those who can take the time to dig up links to old discussions may provide them here as well -- God bless you!

Nota bene: When I was active, I did work that was unaffiliated (founded and edited a magazine) but all the rest of my time was for the benefit of the Movement. And being entirely devoted to their "kingdom," I would have used the magazine for their benefit as well if they wanted it. They didn't.

Thoughts on the next visitation

Most readers have come to recognise that the Vatican is moving with lightning speed concerning the Legion, at least during the pontificate of Benedict. Another visitation has been alluded to, and yet there is confusion as of yet whether it will include all of Regnum Christi or just the third degree (3gf's and 3gm's for women and men respectively). Tom from Atlanta has some thoughts on the direction of this next step:

Personally, I think it would be a big mistake if the RC visitation looked only at the 3gf. The 3gfs are the end product of the assembly line. The whole thing needs to be examined from bottom up, starting with the J4K program on. Some questions for the RC visitor team:

 

Design of the “RC movement:”

 

How could it be that Vatican LC investigators were surprised to find 3gf members? If so, how does the “approval” and “revision” of lay movement’s statutes in Rome work? Is this not a good reason why statutes of lay movements should not be held “secret”? Who was/is in charge in Rome of this process? What canons are followed and who reviewed these? For example, for spiritual direction (SD) of lay by other lay, what canons are used? If there are none, what standards are used? What canons define lay movement “vows”or other such promissory requirements, if any? More specifically, what are the objectives of children, teen and adult RC programs? Who designed these programs and for what? How was the education material used? How close or afar from Catholic teaching/doctrine is this material? What was added? What was removed?

 

Effect of the “RC movement” on parish life:

 

What was the effect on parish ministries, and parish life? How often parishioners were shunned from parish ministries, by RC parishioners for either refusing to join RC or leaving RC? How often did this not happen? Why was RC active in some parishes, while not in others?

 

“RC movement” and the role of the Bishops:

 

What oversight did the local bishop provide, especially in places like Atlanta, where LC/RC was/is active? If none, why? What was and is the influence of money and influential people at the diocesan level? Is this why some bishops ignored letters from concerned parents? How did local dioceses interpret movement “vows” (having had an extensive conversation with one of the canon lawyers for the Archdiocese of Atlanta almost 4 years ago, I can say he had not a clue). 

 

 “RC movement” regional/general infrastructure:

 

What were and how did the affiliated various shell companies, marketing firms, legal teams, spread-sheet recruitment and retention operate? What happened to the money? How was it used? What was the link between US and non US operations?

 

Most importantly, effect of the “RC movement” on engaged members:

 

There needs to be an accurate descriptive account of casualties. Did children and young adults stay or travel to possibly unsafe environments? What about strain on movement families? How many families stayed together, how many broke up? How was SD administered? Where there breaches in confidentiality in schools, as stipulated by laws regulating education? How where teens, young adults recruited? How many, in SD, were told to quit college education?  How many young adults in the RC “assembly line” drop out of RC? What happened to them?

 

Was the discussion to join RC free of coercion? If not, what was the coercion? Where there severe outcomes and how often did these occurred (long term severe depression, isolation, or worse)? What percent of targeted people became 3gf? How long did they stay on average as 3gf, what was the range? What percent left? What happens to those who left? For example out of a total of  “n” 3gfs that were recruited in the world from 1990 to 2010, “x” are still in the movement and are “ok” by such and such criteria, “y” are in but not ok, “z” dropped out, and we have no data on “v” members.

 

Of these that dropped out of 3gf, here is the break down by categories: those that remain in the Catholic Church and are doing ok (married, had children, jobs, joined orders, moved on), those that left the Catholic Church all together, those that live in the basement of their parents houses and have not come out for 10 years, those that stayed in Vegas, those on whom no data is available, break down by countries, regions, period, gender, etc…

 

The team that examines the RC lay movement hopefully will include well trained, non-movement affiliated (to any movement) clergy/religious as well as expert (including non-movement lay) in canon law, civil law, mental health, Catholic education and forensic finances, at the minimum. Results of the investigation should not be held “secret” at the Vatican, but publicly available, as this is a “lay” organization, in our parishes. Meetings open to all should be part of the process. Such a grave mistake (approval of RC as a lay movement in the circumstances we now know), that involved and ultimately hurt, for the great part well intentioned lay that wanted to be active in the Church, should never repeat itself again.

 

Other lay movements, that use similar methods, that inspired LC/RC, could also learn from this, and institute corrective actions.  If done seriously, this could help the Church better minister to all lay and help Church lay to better serve Her, without even needing to join a movement. All this to Love and Serve Him and those around us. Otherwise, any fog that we allow in, for whatever reason, even if not thick, risks to be exploited by evil, when it obstructs and distances us from the message Christ wants us to see. Hope this makes sense. Pax.

Going bigtime

Who needs papal approval if you can use the mainstream media for traction? This article is quite well done and great points are covered. The only thing missing was the sponsorship of the program. Perhaps it's not even a question that would occur to ABC News, but lots of unsuspecting people may flock to the group without that revelation. We're all for modesty but, as usual, a means of living virtue becomes bait for a group with a hidden agenda, with its spiritual directors currently under investigation. I'm just sayin'.

The Marriage Wedge

Yesterday we undertook a discussion about manipulating children, and after nearly a hundred responses we have the standard difficulties in navigating them, and the natural evolution into another topic, for at the heart of the family we discover that the Legion often creates a wedge between husband and wife.

The most recent comment includes these thoughts:

Gregorbo, I think you may be onto something with your hypothesis that the sacrament of marriage can serve as an antidote to the injurious nature of LC/RC. But the problem that I see is that a lot of the "faithful" Catholic couples I know are not very happy together and not very close at all. Some of them really don't even like each other. They will stick it because they believe the Church's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. But it's not a happy state of being.

The weird part is that some of these couples actually seem to regard being joyful in marriage as "immature" and "inappropriate" at this stage of our lives. (We have been married nearly 18 years, so most of the couples I am referring to fall into that same range). As if being crazy in love is only allowed for newlyweds! So I wonder if the ability of the LC/RC to get its foot in the door----and keep driving the wedge open further---isn't that there is already something fundamentally wrong in the understanding of marriage by many "faithful" Catholic types---people who truly want to live out their Catholic principles but have a deeply flawed understanding of what those should be.

Marigold's story demonstrates that couples with strong marriages can still get sucked into LC/RC. But that very bond is what also helped them get out. From what I have been able to tell, LC/RC is rather scared off by strong marriages, in the same way that I think they are often scared off by people who have a very strong theological background. It's as if the LC/RC recognize these strengths will be impediments to their recruiting efforts (what does THAT say about them??) and quickly move on to easier prey.

Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions to this, but I do think there is a trend here. And if couples could only really develop a wholesome, authentic Catholic marital relationship, it could definitely help them recover from the LC/RC poison.

In recent weeks, we've really wandered into the heart of the Beast and the revelations can be astonishing. This one is no less so. Marriage, of course, is the primordial sacrament, and if the Legion Lies are what we think they are, then to be effective they must go to the heart of redemption.

Marriage is not only the rock on which families are built, but it echoes God's own love for His creation -- with Jesus as Bridegroom and Holy Mother Church as Bride. The nature of authentic spousal love is generous, self-less and oblative. The eyes are fixed on each other for strength and unity of purpose, not elsewhere. Jesus, the head of the Church, shows us the way by laying down and dying for his Beloved. She receives His gift and echoes the passion -- giving herself in turn for Him and His children. If the Movement was -- as many pointed out -- a parallel church, then it had to replace the bride with a concubine. Or to put it differently, it teased the faithful with spiritual adultery. The faithful would never have gone for such a thing, knowing the evils of it, so it was done surrepticiously -- in ways that masked the truth.

Remember this post, about the Movement being the mother (which undermines the Church herself, who must hold that place unchallenged). This is key, because when lies are at the heart of a marriage, the house cannot thrive, it cannot even endure very long.

You've been marvelous in bringing out the resources for better parenting, but now it seems that we need some advice for marriage-building, especially to reignite the legitimate (but mature) passions of established couples who have some difficult chapters already imbedded in their family sagas.

Nota bene: "I have come to bring fire to the earth, would that it were already ablaze!" (Luke 12:49)

There is a reason that people are finding such graces in the Enthronement of the Sacred Heart in their homes at this time. If the fiery love that springs from Christ's heart gives life to the Church, then that same flame must kindle each hearth, so that therein we will bask in the joys of the Divine Lover. That is the wellspring of healthy marriages.

Likewise, when couples go deeper and really tap into the nuptial meaning of their lives, there will be far richer and lasting fruits than from all the "efficacious apostolates." Think of the trinitarian love that spills forth and overflows. The same cannot happen through a Movement that applies a wedge between spouses, so as to wring from them more meetings, more recruits and more money. The latter is a scandal, but more important: it's blasphemy. But what would one expect from a fraud such as MM? It all flows downhill.

[Daughter of the Church: it is no coincidence that these great discussions are bubbling forth at this time -- those of you praying the novena have our deepest gratitude!]

New Testimony

About me:
In the Legion: 1992-1996.
Location: Cheshire, CONN.
Apostolic work: Fund raising from US catholic millionaires.

After reading about the Maciel news few days ago on CNN, I did some browsing to revisit what's been going on with LC and RC after 12years of forgetfulness. I would like to say few things to all of you. Feel free to copy-paste my posting to post as many sites as you like so that more people can read.

Here are the reasons why I joined the LC as many of you can sympathize. I was told of these things:
1. Faithful to the Tradition.
2. Devoted to Mary.
3. Old Jesuit spirit.

Here are the reasons why I left the Legion.

NCR dust-up

Dawn Eden has carefully followed a stand-off between Father Euteneuer of Human Life International and Tom Hoopes, editor of the National Catholic Register. Here.

Unanswered post

An important comment was left by a woman named "Mary" on Amy Welborn's blog before comments were closed. It deserves an answer, so this seems to be the only available place. First, the comment:

What strikes me in the interview is the reaction of the diocesan clergy. Early in the interview, the bishop admits that the laity of Baltimore were not getting clear answers on matters of the faith from his priests, but when they approached Legionnaries, they got clear, orthodox explanations.
Then the priests applaud when the bishop announces that he is sanctioning the Legionnaries. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth- it seems that whatever faults the Legion has, the diocese is partly to blame for it.
I am a member of Regnum Christi and have never felt pressured at all to participate in anything I did not want to- as a matter of fact, when I was seriously contemplating a vocation to religious life in residency, I would have appreciated a bit *more* guidance and attention from R.C.

My response: There is some historical shorthand used in the Archbishop's explanation that requires expansion. It is very true that those of us who were drawn to the Legion were exasperated by the "fuzziness" that we found in the diocesan clergy. Homilies were pablum, CCD was wobbly, and most adult formation on the parish level was toxic to faith. We thirsted for orthodoxy and for solid advice in the confessional. We wanted safe havens for our children where they wouldn't be scandalised behind our backs.

In short: we were prime targets for the Legion, who knew the "market niche." I can remember being deeply moved the first time I saw the consecration in an LC chapel. Slow, reverent, pious. And we all sat quietly after Holy Communion making a long and sincere thanksgiving. It was all we wanted.

Later, as more and more men entered seminaries -- inspired by JP2 -- we were beneficiaries of a new generation of faithful priests. It was a breath of fresh air in dioceses across the country and a new springtime had its effects on catechesis, formation, reverence at Mass, and availability of the sacraments. The thirst was assuaged by these generous young men, and the need to look elsewhere for nourishment diminished. The Catechism was written, ETWN was broadcast coast to coast, and the faith was rejuvenated.

Thus, when Archbishop O'Brien then notes that his directive was met with enthusiasm, it leaps across those long years to the present, and his words were received by the new generation of priests who care deeply for their flocks and don't want the sheep ravaged by wolves.

One cannot connect their applause with any sort of dereliction of duty. There is blame to be attributed to the diocesan priests actions in the past, but that era is over, thank God. These younger priests know the suffering in the wake of the Legion. They also know a strong and reliable shepherd by his actions. I hope this explanation helps.

[As for the RC neglect of your real discernment, if you didn't express interest in a vocation with them, then they would naturally have no interest in your future. Sorry, but that's simply the way it is with this group.]

Baltimore wants answers

Archbishop Edwin O'Brien of Baltimore has written a hard-hitting letter to Father Alvaro, asking him to provide some concrete information almost immediately. The fact that it probes the very sensitive spots of recruitment and vocational direction reveals that there may have been serious troubles in those areas. It is impressive that it highlights the fact that there should be no pressure placed on youngsters about vocations, there should be a respectful place for parents in the discernment process, and no spiritual direction given to those under age eighteen. If only all parents knew that canon law forbids it, there would be an end to the insidious "chats" with Legionaries and consecrated women in which dangerous seeds are planted in unsuspecting souls.